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valravennz 
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Points: 2546
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 Topic: Should Nightwish be featured on this site
Posted: April 05 2005 at 21:36 |
 Petra wrote:
Well I voted yes to Nightwish but I agree with a couple of others here that Blind Guardian should be here too if Nightwish is.
I think the problem with a lot of people that dont agree with Nightwish being here is they just don't like Metal full stop and cannot see the prog elements because they are blinded by this idea that prog has be of just one certain style. A lot of Prog rock snobs basically!
I think its brilliant that so many more bands are in this site than 6months ago.
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I totally agree - groups like Blind Guardian should be included in this site. How would you catagorise groups like "Within Temptation" or "Lacuna Coil"? If you know the works of these groups then their similarity to Nightwish would make them candidates for the archives too. 
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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valravennz
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Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Points: 2546
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 21:31 |
Gentle Ronnie wrote:
If effort was spent to get the band on the website, then they should as well stay here forever.
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 - Thanks for the support
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 21:29 |
frenchie wrote:
valravennz wrote:
I say 'Nightwish" stays and groups like TMV should go. |
oh you did NOT GO THERE! Nightwish are fine as a gothic opera-like bad christmas carolling bunch of over the top excuses for metal but they are not prog. I think you need to re-listen to frances the mute.
Irish eye had a bagel bla bla bla Nightwish suck!
I'm in love with my gloves buuuuuuuuurrrrrning bagels to crust!
f**kin' atrocious song! Some of the other songs were tolerable, i really am not a fan but i definetly hear no prog in their music.
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A good bite there!  
Yes - perhaps I should listen to Francis the Mute. But I don't want to waste my money on something I feel I will dislike intensely....
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 21:25 |
Logos wrote:
valravennz wrote:
It may be ridiculous to you but it is just as ridiculous to me that TMV can even come close to being prog. What I have heard of them does not impress me in the least.
However this is just going to go around in circles so lets agree to disagree ok?
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Consider this: The Mars Volta have very long songs (up to 32min!) and the mellotron! If that doesn't make a band prog, then what does???
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Very long songs and the mellotron - granted - are common in progressive rock music. However, it is not essential to have those ingredients. As I have said before in other forums prog rock music is in the ear of the beholder!
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Beau Heem
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 12 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 227
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 18:35 |
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I'm, in a word, disgusted.
When I was first introduced to the site (long before I
started to shout out jokes no-one besides me understands at this
forum), basically every group / artist I "found" here was, according to
my opinion, progressive. It might not have been my cup of tea (kind of
nothing is...), but whenever a band was listed in the progarchives, it
had a certain warranty. I mean that it is ok for me if I don't like a
band or an album I purchase / illegaly download, but I surely get
pissed off if something that is packaged and labeled as prog is, in
fact, something totally different.
The categorizations 'prog metal', 'neo prog' and 'space/experimental'
have no true meaning anymore. That is only because too many a recent
addition to these three 'genres' does not really fit in the category it
has been put in. I don't care too much for prog metal (that's just
ugly), so I wouldn't mind if each and every metal band was added to the
archives - I tend to skip those groups anyway. But I do find it a bit
irritating to be forced to search information about groups that are
listed as 'neo progressive' or 'space / experimental' from other sites
and other sources because I cannot trust the categorisations.
The above text musn't necessarily be read because, to be honest, I
hardly ever listen to music.
Cheers
-Beau
PS. Listening to Gnidrolog as I write...
Edited by Beau Heem
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--No enemy but time--
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 17:21 |
Should be the possibility to vote for indifferent.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 17:17 |
valravennz wrote:
I say 'Nightwish" stays and groups like TMV should go. |
oh you did NOT GO THERE! Nightwish are fine as a gothic opera-like bad christmas carolling bunch of over the top excuses for metal but they are not prog. I think you need to re-listen to frances the mute. Irish eye had a bagel bla bla bla Nightwish suck! I'm in love with my gloves buuuuuuuuurrrrrning bagels to crust! f**kin' atrocious song! Some of the other songs were tolerable, i really am not a fan but i definetly hear no prog in their music.
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The Worthless Recluse
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Valarius
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 08 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1480
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 16:31 |
Lol... 
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 15:35 |
Do you mean "Nightranger"? If so, I'll agree that they can get rather proggy... 
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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billyshears'67
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 26 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 161
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 14:03 |
Petra wrote:
I think the problem with a lot of people that dont agree with
Nightwish being here is they just don't like Metal full stop and cannot
see the prog elements because they are blinded by this idea that prog
has be of just one certain style. A lot of Prog rock snobs
basically!
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'Ello,
Yeah, I've been listening to metal since the age of 5 and I'm 19 now
and I've been exposed to EVERY form of metal out there. So I myself
know what I'm talkin' about.
Secondly, I've heard ALL of Nightwish's albums plenty of times (my
older bro is a Nightwish freak) and there's hardly even a progression
from album to album, especially now, since they've developed into
a predictable euro/metal/pop unit. Though, they did come up with a
metal formula all their own, I just don't see them as a group treading
new territories that would be considered "progressive."
I feel beside myself when I ask a question like "is this or that band
progressive" y'know. When I listen to a band I don't wonder "is this
progressive?" yadda yadda. I think is this music good? Is the
musicianship there? Is there some sort of musical identity? Really when
comes down to the whole categorization of music, it doesn't bloody
matter.
P.S.
Thanks Petra, for the kind thoughts in regards to my interview! No animosity here.
Peace & take care 
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Vince
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 24 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 95
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 12:14 |
I think the problem comes down to what is the definition of Progressive music. And unfortunately, this has been an endless debate. I have not seen it here yet, but I am very new here and have not read everything. But I've seen it on many other boards. If I would ask "what is progressive rock for you", everyone would give a different answer. Why don't we just accept the fact that the term "progressive" has become more widely used than some would like, that it includes much more bands than one would think. Why don't we just welcome any band that is more or less related to others already featured here. Does it hurt anyone to give any band a chance of being discovered by people who don't know them? If you like them, good. If you don't, that's just fine too. Case closed. I don't see why Nightwish sould not be included here.
My two cent...
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"The mind is like a parachute: it doesn't work until it's opened"... Frank Zappa.
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frenchie
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 30 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2234
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 11:23 |
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there was another band on here that werent prog at all and it was a mistake so they got removed. Another band should be radiohead! But nightwish are even less proggy than radiohead. I wish i had an angel! what a piece of crap! The only relation i've see between nightwish and prog is that they can both be very OTT!!!
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The Worthless Recluse
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Petra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 23 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 663
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 09:15 |
Well I voted yes to Nightwish but I agree with a couple of others here that Blind Guardian should be here too if Nightwish is.
I think the problem with a lot of people that dont agree with Nightwish being here is they just don't like Metal full stop and cannot see the prog elements because they are blinded by this idea that prog has be of just one certain style. A lot of Prog rock snobs basically!
I think its brilliant that so many more bands are in this site than 6months ago.
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Don't hate me
I'm not special like you
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Gentle Ronnie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 17 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 540
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 09:00 |
If effort was spent to get the band on the website, then they should as well stay here forever.
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 07:41 |
valravennz wrote:
It may be ridiculous to you but it is just
as ridiculous to me that TMV can even come close to being prog. What I
have heard of them does not impress me in the least.
However this is just going to go around in circles so lets agree to disagree ok? |
Consider this: The Mars Volta have very long songs (up to 32min!) and
the mellotron! If that doesn't make a band prog, then what does???
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 06:41 |
Logos wrote:
valravennz wrote:
I am draging this up again because I am intensely annoyed at the sl*gging off of Nightwish. 
They should be on this site! They are prog power metal and a heap sight more listenable to than some of the other groups mentioned here. What is wrong with power metal - Nightwish style or is it that they have an enormously talented female lead vocalist, who easily rates with some of our favourite male lead vocalists in prog?
I say 'Nightwish" stays and groups like TMV should go. Perhaps there should be a discussion as to the advantages and disadvantages of having such a male dominated music genre in which female artists are 'generally' excluded . It is great to see prog groups today including and using a female as a lead vocalist and promoting them as such. And they are doing a fine job of it too
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I can only laugh at you saying that Nightwish is prog and TMV is not. That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while.
And another point: there's nothing wrong with power metal, I just often find it too cheesy for my taste; but I do enjoy many power metal bands. But the point is that power metal is not prog.
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It may be ridiculous to you but it is just as ridiculous to me that TMV can even come close to being prog. What I have heard of them does not impress me in the least.
However this is just going to go around in circles so lets agree to disagree ok?
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 06:36 |
geezer wrote:
This debate is quite useless. All the hatred is because they have become very popular. If they were not popular nobody would care if they are in this site or not. It's a matter of taste. I wonder why there is not a debate why these oher popular bands like Porcupine Tree and Radiohead are in this site? I don't think these bands are progressive at all!! Everything I have heard from PT since "The Sky Moves Sideways" and all Radiohead is just british pop music to me. They belong to the same category as Oasis and Blur. This is just my opinion on some other "popular" bands. There is tons of bands in this site that many people don't consider progressive, not only Nightwish. As you can see it is quite useless. A matter of taste. |
Some very good points there, Geezer and you are right it is a matter of taste - it doesn't pay to be popular in the prog world does it ?
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 06:35 |
valravennz wrote:
I am draging this up again because I am intensely annoyed at the sl*gging off of Nightwish.
They should be on this site! They are prog power
metal and a heap sight more listenable to than some of the other groups
mentioned here. What is wrong with power metal - Nightwish style or is
it that they have an enormously talented female lead vocalist, who
easily rates with some of our favourite male lead vocalists in prog?
I say 'Nightwish" stays and groups like TMV should go. Perhaps
there should be a discussion as to the advantages
and disadvantages of having such a male dominated music genre
in which female artists are 'generally' excluded . It is great to
see prog groups today including and using a female as a lead vocalist
and promoting them as such. And they are doing a fine job of it too |
I can only laugh at you saying that Nightwish is prog and TMV is not. That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while.
And another point: there's nothing wrong with power metal, I just often
find it too cheesy for my taste; but I do enjoy many power metal bands.
But the point is that power metal is not prog.
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geezer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 06:30 |
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This debate is quite useless. All the hatred is because they have
become very popular. If they were not popular nobody would care if they
are in this site or not. It's a matter of taste. I wonder why there is
not a debate why these oher popular bands like Porcupine Tree and
Radiohead are in this site? I don't think these bands are progressive
at all!! Everything I have heard from PT since "The Sky Moves Sideways"
and all Radiohead is just british pop music to me. They belong to the
same category as Oasis and Blur. This is just my opinion on some other
"popular" bands. There is tons of bands in this site that many people
don't consider progressive, not only Nightwish. As you can see it is
quite useless. A matter of taste.
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 2546
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Posted: April 05 2005 at 05:47 |
I am draging this up again because I am intensely annoyed at the sl*gging off of Nightwish.
They should be on this site! They are prog power metal and a heap sight more listenable to than some of the other groups mentioned here. What is wrong with power metal - Nightwish style or is it that they have an enormously talented female lead vocalist, who easily rates with some of our favourite male lead vocalists in prog?
I say 'Nightwish" stays and groups like TMV should go. Perhaps there should be a discussion as to the advantages and disadvantages of having such a male dominated music genre in which female artists are 'generally' excluded . It is great to see prog groups today including and using a female as a lead vocalist and promoting them as such. And they are doing a fine job of it too
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Should Nightwish be featured on this site
