Classical Prog |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 40646 |
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Posted: September 23 2024 at 08:30 |
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1988: Deja-Vu - Baroque in the Future - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLfHdnuIDeZenjdZdsS7ch28gxy077zEQ
It's Baroque to the Future with some Neo-Classical Prog from Japanese band Deja Vu. |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14191 |
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Classical inspired originals? Try the first 4 albums by Angelo Branduardi Not mentioned often, Steve Hackett's "A Cradle Of Swans" from Cured is a nice classical guitar piece From East Europe Cszaba Vedres and After Crying, Marian Varga and Collegium Musicum. There's a lot of classical stuff in prog
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17689 |
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Hi, Like Vivaldi, who could improvise forever and go crazy, Paganini is only thought of as a bit of heavy metal, because when he started improvising and going crazy, he could stay there for a long time, and heavy metal tends to be that way ... let's see how much longer Mike's solo guitar will be in the next DT album kind of thing. In terms of playing and his dexterity, I am not sure that most heavy metal even comes close since it continuously uses the same notes and chords, and instead uses loudness to help you make believe that it is an important piece of music! It's not, obviously, all like that ... If Paganini is heavy metal, what do you consider those Hindu folks that do ragas for several hours, as a way to demonstrate their ability and concentration? That would be far more "heavy metal" than a lot of the music that Paganini played with, which likely had a lot less freedom at the time, and free form folks like him probably added to the ability to "let go" a bit more than the stoic and often boring rest of a lot of music at the time ... stuck to the count and slow forever! Both Vivaldi, and later Paganini, probably put a serious dent into that slow, and stuck pieces of music controlled by the mentality of the courts who only knew numbers to 4 ... and the next number was a problem that could not happen in music!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17689 |
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Hi, I would not say it is a great influence, but it says something else ... that we can improvise and come up with just about anything, and it counts, regardless. In terms of that "freedom", it would be an influence, however, I think that in some ways, this particular path in electronic material had its source in the early days of the synthesizer, and it learning to make sounds ... and this piece, is ... probably just about that. I do not think, specially, that this is important as an influence, other than the attitude/freedom to just about do anything during the piece, which I seriously doubt would sound the "same" when done the next night. As such, it would not be an "influence", since we know that what was known as art music and pop music were very formulaic and in due time, this influence "disappeared" ... specially for listeners in this place. You still got a Faust and a couple of other odd ball things, but in general, it was gone. The bigger influence, that we do not discuss simply as our tendency is to consider everything nothing but songs, is that the composition style had developed from the simplistic ones used in pop music, and most rock music at the time. Most early "progressive" was still married to the format in some forms. I think that The Nice/ELP kinda broke the mold, however, ELP's first album is ... songs, for the most part, if we really look at it ... and I think that was an issue for the record company, not wanting something that was not entirely recognizable and the band alienate the fans. However, it would be nuts to suggest that a lot of folks in the late 60's and early 70's were just wanting to make songs ... I doubt it, although I have only heard Gary Green (GG) say something about that. GG suggested it wasn't about a song ... they just played, and sometimes things worked and other times they didn't ... and a lot of it had NOT, at that time even been written down, which means they cleaned it all up in concert. We have a horrific time with this idea, even here, but it is something that is very similar to "krautrock", though in this case one would think the influences are anything that can be called music ... turned somewhat upside down!
Edited by moshkito - August 17 2024 at 06:28 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 40646 |
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Count me in as another fan of Ekseption, who had a Bach to Bach string of great albums during the 1970's.
EKSEPTION An Ekseptional band from Haarlem led by Rick van der Linden (the Keith Emerson of The Netherlands), inventively combining jazz, classical music and prog-rock together into one powerful, heady mix and rocking and rolling their way all over Bach, Beethoven, Gershwin, Khachaturian, Mozart, Tchaikovsky and many others. 1969: Ekseption - Ekseption - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-Z9W9MZCGGtULZR5QtqETe1zRF38v6J 1970: Ekseption - Beggar Julia's Time Trip - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kPe1itZ1Bx9ombaK2StFGTtcSugvAkOyI 1970: Ekseption - Ekseption 3 - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kRY10OXYIhX67R4kkZa_Ir6CDLKtV92J0 1971: Ekseption - Ekseption 00:04 - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l7EVc0M3uqSuhRbpyTVdIlKXcg0HYKOC0 1972: Ekseption - Ekseption 5 - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOYffU9ZKMcLB1s2vhFiJaZiwXltr2dOT 1973: Ekseption - Trinity - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGfb2R92OHulO2C04R2z1GrBnJYv15d-2 1974: Ekseption - Bingo - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTPVMvqMv4kce8KcFQABiqUBd1nCPGte1 1975: Ekseption - Mindmirror - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2pWBHjyfUc 1976: Ekseption - Back to the Classics - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kwbg1q9lOr6N-C8HWroGkEeGxMyqID6Fg 1978: Ekseption - Ekseption '78 - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n_Gl52jCZLiai_2DwL-EyQAzorHAqqe_U 1989: Ekseption - Plays Bach - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKM1m7Haqp4fPb-6tMXfhUskH8V-vJQ3P |
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David_D
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Ekseption - With Love From (1975) |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17689 |
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Hi,
One SERIOUS consideration about this thread ... how we do NOT consider a lot of the work that some rock folks have done, the equivalent of "classical music" ... and that hurts. I'm of the opinion that one thing that a lot of the folks that we consider "progressive", were looking for, was to create music that went beyond the limits of rock'n'roll and the (pathetic) hit radio generation of the 60's ... and here we are, and we mention all that stuff, but we do not consider anything as very strong and equivalent ... one listen to Rachel Flowers doing TARKUS in a piano is simply enough to tell you that it was a massive piano concerto ... but nooooooo ... we only think of it as just a song! It's just as well that "progressive" is almost dead ... we don't believe in it, anyway ... but I have tried and tried, and never quit on it .... it's not about the "song" or the "solo" ... and until we grow out of the young get suxed in the movie/tv shot that makes it look like a star ... I don't think that we can get anywhere. To me, the folks doing some classical music was a nice hint, but really, ELP, at least, tried to elevate it to something else ... and if you have not seen the clip in Montreal about Aaron Copland's piece, you are missing, some really far out work ... something that most of the folks that did "classical music" were NEVER able to consider or try. ELP had guts ... and that piece is incredible! And, usually that is the mark of a true artist ... not being afraid to try and do something else and different! Just playing the piece is not enough. Even hearing Marcus Reuter do Stravinsky (with the Stick Men) ... is insane, but great ... I would have liked to see more not just the piece itself ... but not sure they can do something that is not "scripted" in some form even though they seem to be very experimental ... I kinda find it less so, specially if you catch Marcus with Thorsten Q and stick around for 35/40 minutes ... that's free form, and original and very classic in many ways!
Edited by moshkito - August 16 2024 at 07:15 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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dr wu23
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Which classical composers have influenced prog rock...?
All of them. |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15203 |
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Ekseption (NL) - Trinity (1973) Including interpretations of pieces by Bach, Beethoven and Rimsky-Korsakov, and btw this album was in the '70s one of my first steps into Prog. Edited by David_D - August 15 2024 at 10:33 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Cosmiclawnmower
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The Earlier Enid albums were very heavily..err.. Channeling Elgar, Vaughan Williams, William Walton et al in a rather upfront manner.. and lets face it, that romantic English 20th century pastoral thang fits where they were at perfectly..
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Progosopher
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Any strong melody can have an influence for those who are cognizant of them. Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, Albinoni's Adagio, are the ones that come to mind first. Paganini has been described as heavy metal to me, and I can certainly hear that.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Floydoid
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I'm sure Stockhausen had a massive influence on early prog works, such as ELP's albums up to and including Works 1, and pre DSOTM Floydian works.
Edited by Floydoid - August 14 2024 at 10:00 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17689 |
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Hi, Paul ... you need to find/see a film called ALLEGRO NON TROPPO. It is a sendup to FANTASIA, and the closing piece is the BOLERO .... lovely cartoons, and that last one is not the best.
That is Keith hurrying up to the bathroom, as he is late for rehearsal!
Watch the Daily Doug Episode on this and Aaron Copland's piece ... it really makes it better and at the time some folks thought that ELP were just wasting time .... nope, they were really rocking!
Edited by moshkito - August 17 2024 at 06:14 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17689 |
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Hi, Taking a course in music appreciation at your local city college, would be a good start. Most classes on this call is "modern music" or "western civilization music", although we really do not have enough clear ideas about music before Vivaldi, Albinoni, Bach and such ... and we think that the religious this and that was all that was about, which is impossibly true. A good course goes through many things and allows us to see the many eras and styles of music and learn something from it ... my main bitch about a lot of stuff regarding music and the arts is simply the fact that a massively huge percentage don't give a damn about the history and how things got to this level today ... and all that is left? Your favorite, of course ... because everything else is not around! The main issue with the familiarity with the history of classical music, is that it will throw you for 10 loops and a half, and destroy your ideas, and understandings that you have about "progressive music", or anything else without a title and name on it. All of a sudden Chuck Berry is not important, but for one thing ... his ability to flip a finger at the folks that thought music was this and that, and all of a sudden he is selling twice, three times, four times more than any classical music ... but that does not entitle him (and he never claimed it!) to be an important part of music history ... he is in terms of ATTITUDE, which is one of the greatest parts of rock music, and its most distinctive feature! And THAT fits in a lot of music history, since you can listen to a lot of operas and realise that the "emotions are so bottle up and "invented" to the point of it being ridiculous ... but (sadly!), you'll never hear a Pavarotti (just an example!!!) go rogue on the stage which would actually be far out ... but that would take him out of the Carnegie Hall forever where he could make the most money! It kinda tells you how much "classical music" has controlled people to do what the history of it all thinks is the way it is supposed to be. But knowing classical music makes you no better than anything else ... witness Rick Wokeman ... who knows all the music history and yet his compositions are such low level that it is almost sad. Most of his stuff is centered and designed/defined towards the song format, and has very little to show for itself than classical music in my book. Yes, HE CAN PLAY and then some ... but as a creative force, he lost it when he could not even realize that experimentation and creating music with it is what so much of the 20th century was all about ... and in his case having a hundred keyboards to play exactly the same thing with a different sound! It confounds me that he trashes TFTO over his own pieces, when his pieces are not even "original" and as strong and shown as the piece he didn't like, but was able to add some neat parts to it. It is that kind of dichotomy, that prevents us, rock fans, from understanding music properly ... because some of these goons actually believe that a score with 40 lines for a staff is merde and his 6 lines of a staff on one piece is more important ... well, we do remember Bach, Vivaldi and such and they did not have a lot of lines on the staff .... but I think we will remember those a lot better than Mr. Wokeman!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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David_D
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Canarios (ESP) - Cycles: Based upon Antonio Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons" (1974) And this one is not only peppered by Rock but Flamenco temperament too. Highly recommendable and especially for those who can be fond of some synthesizer Metal.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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cstack3
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My personal favorite....I always wanted to open my own concerts with this work! (Hey Yes already has the Firebird Suite!)
I love 2:30 onwards!! This was the soundtrack for the old Flash Gordon serials in the 1930s, which I adored! Edited by cstack3 - August 13 2024 at 22:30 |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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verslibre
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Speaking of Prokofiev:
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siLLy puPPy
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RON "BUMBLEFOOT" THAL - Chopin Fantasie |
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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17689 |
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Hi,
I was thinking that Igor Stravinsky would not exactly be foreign to a lot of rock music. There are articles on the net suggesting that he influenced some hard rock music. One of the first "progressive" classical albums I got was ELP's Mussorgsky version ... but there was, in America, at least The Electric Prunes ... that also did "classical music" although I never found it associated with any specific composer. I may have to listen to "Mass in F Minor" again. Hardly remember it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Rick Wakeman stole a little bit from Grieg (Hall of the Mountain King) on his Journey to the Center of the Earth album. Then of course there's also ELP's Pictures at an Exhibition which was originally done by Modest Mussourgsky. And although I haven't heard it there's a prog rock version of Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf. Anyone know that one?
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