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    Posted: 1 hour 29 minutes ago at 09:39
I have known plenty of guys very into jazz who like to talk about music, but that was in person. I don't know that jazz appreciators are that different from classical appreciators, rock appreciators, art music generally appreciators, or those like me who enjoy all of the above. I am more of a forum person (I don't like getting together with people in person much now so do this instead and have my nuclear family anyway) so JMA probably would not suit me. Lots of hardcore music appreciators into many styles of music who take music very seriously. I don't like music snobs whatever the style of music, and prefer those who can have fun, display some warmth and empathy, and joke around.

As for the internet and music, it did open up worlds of music to me and I continue to discover new-to-me music from all over, develop new passions, and explore different music. I do have my music grooves that I am currently most into, and actually I'm not someone who wants to listen to music every day. I'd day over the past year, things like Sufjan Stevens, Weyes Blood, Lingua Ignota, Boards of Canada, Fishmans et cetera have been floating my boat more than the vast majority of music that gets talked about much in the Prog forums.

What I lost is actually spending time with people listening to music as I became less sociable with people IRL after getting involved with the internet. I used to love to get together with friends and play albums and have this kind of shared experience and joy that I have not experienced online. I miss that and have hope to replicate that here, but this is different. It's different when you can see other people's expressions, comment and listen together in real-time, and be together. I used to be much more sociable. Now I keep putting off people who want to get together since I still have many people who consider me to be a friend (which may seem surprising), and want to hang out, but I'm not a good friend. I do miss having friends physically expose me to music, sharing the listening experience, the joy I used to have of record shops, discovering something new that I liked was more of an event before as I can discover things so easily now with a little typing, a touch of the finger or the click of a mouse.

As for PA, I think there's still plenty of variety and wonderful music being talked about that one might not know.   I think one just has to pay more attention to a wider variety of posts at PA. And with bandcamp and youtube, it is so easy to check out new music (at least if one has a decent internet service/ connection -- I have fibre optic). And one always make topics to expose more people to different music. If the majority only talk about a handful of bands, that's fine, there's still space and people here to talk about more niche music. I'd rather focus on what I like about this site and the posts I like and interest me than what I don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 19 minutes ago at 08:49
Hi,

BTW, the login for the JMA is screwed up ... says it will mail you something that never arrives ... gotta love some code out there ... changed username to Moshkiae.


Edited by moshkito - 2 hours 14 minutes ago at 08:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 21 minutes ago at 05:47
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...
this is a discussion worth having. In the early 2000's the internet felt like a godsend to me (and many like myself). 
...
And man did I fall down one rabbit hole after the other. I stumbled over a whole planet of sounds and "local scenes in every corner of the world" that I had virtually no prior knowledge about.
... 
And you know what; a huge part of the attraction was that most of the music felt rooted in local musical traditions, but pushing those traditions forward, creating something that was new. New to me, at least.
...
Point being, the internet opened up the world. It really did. We gained something - or rather a lot, but we also lost something. I don't know exactly what. 
... 
and gone was our wide eyed innocence?
...
Hi,

Nice ... I was lucky in the sense that between 10 and 16 I got to see/meet 3 different cultures (Portugal/Brazil and USA) and being in a house with over 30K books of literature, mostly Spanish, Portuguese and Brazilian, the idea of "many" cultures was already there, and then, to boot, dad was a foreign film enthusiast with all the big names in directing in the 1950's and 1960's ... thus my varied tastes are more of a factor of (probably) having heard, seen and read, more than most, specially these days, when "reading" is not a college rule like it was in my days in it ... which makes things very different. 

Thus, by the time I met Guy Guden at college, we became friends because he was into a lot of English stuff, and for me that was a breadth of fresh air ... someone with a wider taste in the arts ... the one thing that I missed the most in all my years, even at UCSB when it became fairly obvious that what I was studying was valuable and important, and for many folks around me ... who cares, it doesn't matter! 

Space Pirate Radio, became my foreign everything, as both Guy and I had no qualms about anything else in music ... and our record hunts, had already started some 2 years prior to the actual first SPR show on January 27th 1974. We already had Can, Amon Duul, Roy Harper, Nektar, and a huge amount of English stuff ... and we were roommates for a few years ... until the Fall of 1978.

I never felt, until the past 5 years or so on PA that music had lost its touch and feel, and was no longer insulated by its culture ... and then I got to see some lists, and they were all Anglo-Sized with at least a sizeable portion of the bands, being from many other countries ... now the music had become "the same" ... and not as interesting, and seeing the interest by everyone else in the PA Forums, was a bit scary for me ... what we considered "progressive" was now dead ... just named something else that was imaginary and had no musical value other than copy and paste.

I don't think that we "lost our innocence" ... what I think we lost is that we grew up in a time when the Internet helped take away the cultural edges and the English standard all over, became the important factor that determined how big, or how good something was/is. It becomes, for me, very weird ... here we are wanting a democratic thing and we are all doing it via a socialist method, so to speak ... in my mind, it didn't add up ... and of course, folks got mad at me for saying!

JMA, for me, has not had the strong appeal as yet, as the posting side of it was not exactly alive ... and a few years back, it was like the whole thing was done by one or two folks, who obviously cared and took it upon themselves to add to the whole thing ... however, I think that PA/JMA lose a lot of good folks that care, because no one in the "ranks" pays attention to them, or finds a way for them to become a part of the whole thing ... it doesn't matter how much you know or not ... you or I will not be a part of the club it feels like ... with no clear appreciation for his/her work, those folks finally left it all behind, it feels like ... we all leave home when we grow up kind of thing! The reasons are not important, but the leaving is ... and that says it all for many places and its temporary fame on the Internet!

I'm not sure JMA is going to improve or get better, unless it gets a few folks completely away from PA, so it has a chance to improve and become more valuable all around ... though I'm not sure that the "fan" style on PA will go down well on JMA at all ... most jazz audiences I have ever been with ... are not into the numbers ... they are into the music, and that's HUGE ... HUGE ... all around.


Edited by moshkito - 5 hours 21 minutes ago at 05:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 hours 12 minutes ago at 22:56
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I find it scary that we take an Italian band, and it sounds exactly like 10 others already listed, and they are American or English ... that just shows how local cultures are falling apart, because of the internet that considers one thing great and the rest, just poopoo!

Now regardless of Jazz, Prog or whatever human expression, this is a discssuion worth having. In the early 2000's the internet felt like a godsend to me (and many like myself). I suppose I went online searching for some additional music, albums or info about Univers Zero, Samla Mammas Manna or some other band I had just heard for the first time - thanks to a flatmate with eclectic tastes. And man did I fall down one rabbit hole after the other. I stumbled over a whole planet of sounds and "local scenes in every corner of the world" that I had virtually no prior knowledge about. I was part of both the discovery, rediscovery and ressurection of progressive music made in Italy, France, Sweden, Japan, Quebec (I know, Canada), Brazil, Germany etc... And you know what; a huge part of the attraction was that most of the music felt rooted in local musical traditions, but pushing those traditions forward, creating something that was new. New to me, at least.

Point being, the internet opened up the world. It really did. We gained something - or rather a lot, but we also lost something. I don't know exactly what. It's like everyone became a professional, a living encyclopedia... and gone was our wide eyed innocense? I'm rambling, I know. And this should probably be a thread on it's own.

lastly: Some of my relative disinterest in "modern prog" is that IN GENERAL (and not always), I often feel that there's less distinct (local/regional) identity in the music made post internet era. I even feel there's a recipe for creating "avant-garde". Again, there's always exceptions. Everyone should be free to do what they love, but I can't pretend to be exited about it when I'm not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 49 minutes ago at 21:19
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

 
...
Jazz sites tend to focus on new albums and recently released archival albums. That's fine with me, I rarely participate in the discussions at PA either, its just not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for music I haven't heard yet, especially new music.

Hi,

I have never really thought of it, but at least on the JMA side of things we don't have the number of folks that make a point of posting for the sake of posting and to add to their post count, including their own.

Maybe it is that the folks that listen to jazz tend to not be as commercially minded and tend to be quite more independent in their tastes, something that is not exactly an important idea on PA ... with quite a few threads on new this and that ... and no one is interested, which for me is very scary ... on a site that is "progressive" on top of it ... and at least, one of the things in JMA that I see is that the style or type of jazz is not that big a deal, as it seems to be here on PA. This could be just my own perception, and a bit off key ... but it seems that way.

I kinda of think of jazz listeners as more serious about their music, than the pop music style on PA ... where everyone posts on the top 5 and almost no one posts on the bottom 5, which I think says it all about the fans and the music itself ... it's not even about the music at all ... it's about the FAN! And I have not seen that on jazz folks as much, and have always had some interesting discussions on a lot of jazz things, although I came into jazz via ECM, and a few lucky listens ... The Koln Concert, and Gismonti's No Caipira. But Brazilian "jazz" was already in my ears based on a couple of famous names, so by the time I heard Gismonti, I was more than ready and got at least 4 or 5 more albums of his and then decided to get more into Garbarek, which I originally bought because of the symphony that was written for him via Keith Jarrett ... and to my ear, Garbarek was much better elsewhere than with Jarrett.

The rest of ECM was easy ... picked up Terje Rypdal because of an advertisement on MM for a show in London with AshRaTempel, and the rest is history ... I picked up EOS and then got a bunch of David Darling and continued with Eberhard Weber, and others from ECM ... the main stream "jazz" in America was not forgotten, and while I had not at that time gotten my ears tuned to Miles (for example) hearing some of the things that became the LA jazz scene, all the time, with a show that was before Space Pirate Radio ... which played a lot of "known" things but also had a few nice things occasionally, though I don't think the person that played the stuff has a good ear for new music ... almost all of it was (let's say) heard before by someone else, so to speak. We're talking 1974/5/6 here.

I'll probably spend a bit more time on JMA and might add some reviews in there, something that I have not enjoyed doing for PA as the way that the reviews are shown and listed, is somewhat of a "meat market" and at times, really tough on some bands, with folks that obviously do not care for the music ... but if that is the case, what is the point of a review, though many of us will state that we need to be objective and allow the bad reviews ... but the fact is that it hurts the attention and appreciation of a lot of bands, that end up not getting the benefit of being enjoyed by the reviews, although I do not thin that a "good review" can not state that this or that is not the reviewers style or favorite ... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 08:33
Originally posted by Matti Matti wrote:

...
Definitely JMA is too inactive. I don't mind about the lack of conversation in the JMA forum, but I've been wondering why the new artists adding process has radically slowed down. That is, new suggestions are piling up.
...

Hi,

I'm guessing that JMA does not have "Admins" or folks that are exclusive to jazz, and is probably using the same folks as PA ... but that's a guess.

The process, for JMA, would need to be more centered on the knowledge and understanding of the music, than simply a cookie cutter and idea fitting into something or other, or ... just another growl, so it can be considered "progrock" ... and added to PA. However, this is a guess of mine.

I would probably be at JMA a lot more (that would make some folks happy here on PA!!!), if the folks in "charge" were more visible, and less hidden, or possibly non-existent ... but that is not my call ... 

I would like to see JMA do better, but jazz is not as much about the number one as pop music is, and PA handles it as such, I like to joke as every now and then ... for it to be "music" it needs to be free from its chains and definitions, and that's illegal on PA, so to speak, on top of the fact that it won't get listed on anyone's top this or that.

But, I can not say that I am not a "jazz" listener, since I have been there since Miles, and so much of the ECM material ... though I have never exactly been a Blue Note person. Always loved the free form expressions and the additions of more foreign folks to it, as opposed to the factory of the same thing in the prog/progressive top lists. I find it scary that we take an Italian band, and it sounds exactly like 10 others already listed, and they are American or English ... that just shows how local cultures are falling apart, because of the internet that considers one thing great and the rest, just poopoo! You're not likely, I don't think, to find someone trashing music that bad with so many trolls on JMA ... unlike PA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2024 at 02:29
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

...
Certainly, this would be of far more interest than the 60,000th review of Selling England. Such a feature would restore much of the interest for our reviewing collabs in the wider progressive music world, artists especially.

Hi,

Or the 60,000 comment on Jethro Tull, or Yes.

The main difference for me, is that JMA seems to be more interested in the material itself ... here, folks seem more interested in the numbers game and the comments that the fans determine what is art ... whereas in the jazz world, the artists are given a lot more latitude, than the cookie cutter factory on PA proper ... 

It is possible, that PA has gotten better about this over the years, but seeing the same threads yet again, is a bit weird ... and folks spending more time on 3/4/5 bands than the MUSIC itself ... that in itself is even weirder! Not sure you'll find that on JMA.

the hard/harsh side of it, is that PA has a lot of trolls that are commenting on the person and not the music, probably/likely a thought that they do not exactly have listened to the piece. JMA is probably more of something for folks that are more musically attuned, instead of just adding comments for the sake of comments, and to show they are a proven member of the group by the number of postings. I hope, and can not say for sure, that I do not think that JMA would have anything like this around ... at least compared to PA.

But, I'm likely to leave here, sooner or later, since the number of folks with serious appreciation for the music itself, has dwindled even more, and after a while, it feels like ... not fun anymore, specially when it's not about the hit, or well known piece, and many folks here do NOT like people that have different opinions and can express them .... to them everyone has to come from the same cookie cutter ... its a very much fan oriented thing, that even disdains the artist for their choices ... something that should not be allowed ... I don't think the artist is beyond criticism, but we have to defend their right to say it ... lest we become like so many of those countries elsewhere where the arts no longer exist, and they spend their time destroying the history of the arts in order to make themselves more visible and important!


Edited by moshkito - December 11 2024 at 09:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 22:57
In my most active (and now fading) JMA era from August 2023 to recent times, I reviewed albums there more than here. Probably 90% of them for previously unreviewed artists, which actually was motivating me in the first place. The fact that so much of the JMA artists are still unreviewed is rather sad, isn't it?

Definitely JMA is too inactive. I don't mind about the lack of conversation in the JMA forum, but I've been wondering why the new artists adding process has radically slowed down. That is, new suggestions are piling up. It's frustrating for those making the suggestions (also I am waiting for a few artists to be added, having received jazz CD's to-be-reviewed), and very likely that turns potential reviewers off.



Edited by Matti - December 12 2024 at 23:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote snobb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 22:21
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ I will look into it.


same user name Catcher10




I send you the instructions by PM, hope it will help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 18:37
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I go there about once a week to research stuff. Good site, could use more forum chatter
I don't know of any jazz sites that have any chatter. AllAboutJazz closed their forum about 7 years ago. Any other site I know of doesn't even have a discussion board. Jazz sites tend to focus on new albums and recently released archival albums. That's fine with me, I rarely participate in the discussions at PA either, its just not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for music I haven't heard yet, especially new music.

Edited by Easy Money - December 10 2024 at 18:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 18:17
I go there about once a week to research stuff. Good site, could use more forum chatter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 17:35
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ I will look into it.

same user name Catcher10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 17:33
^ I will look into it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 17:31
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^It's because there is no interaction of forum members. Great site but a graveyard.
Not a graveyard at all, JMA has more artists than PA and almost twice as many albums, all of this even though PA had an almost 10 year head start. There is not much chit chat on the forum because that is typical of jazz sites. You won't find a jazz site with much conversation anywhere. Jazz fans are mostly into the music. If you like jazz music, JMA posts new album features every day, check it out:
https://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31242&PID=152476&SID=8c39785e7z31z6ae6343e42bcb87b5894907407&title=jazz-albums-for-2024#152476

So I tried to login to my JMA account and I guess I don't know it anymore, can you or someone reset me so i don't have to re-sign up and lose my profile?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 17:21
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I need to re-start going there more, I joined it in 2011......need to spend more time there. Prog is boring...


I must say that I'm not very active there, anymore.
All I've done in recent years is posting my EOY lists. Embarrassed
A good forum attendance might've kept fueling my interest.
I'm not sure MMA is doing that much better  re: forum.
I don't even have it in my bookmarks.

I still go there to check out discographies, when Discogs has me doubting (as opposed to doing the opposite)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 17:02
I need to re-start going there more, I joined it in 2011......need to spend more time there. Prog is boring...

Edited by Catcher10 - December 10 2024 at 17:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 14:13
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^It's because there is no interaction of forum members. Great site but a graveyard.
Not a graveyard at all, JMA has more artists than PA and almost twice as many albums, all of this even though PA had an almost 10 year head start. There is not much chit chat on the forum because that is typical of jazz sites. You won't find a jazz site with much conversation anywhere. Jazz fans are mostly into the music. If you like jazz music, JMA posts new album features every day, check it out:
https://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31242&PID=152476&SID=8c39785e7z31z6ae6343e42bcb87b5894907407&title=jazz-albums-for-2024#152476

Edited by Easy Money - December 10 2024 at 14:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 13:43
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^It's because there is no interaction of forum members. Great site but a graveyard.


This again^.


I wish there were more reviews and ratings.  That's how I narrow down which jazz albums to listen to.  


Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 10 2024 at 15:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 13:39
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

With all the Holdsworth/McLaughlin/Ponty/ECM fans on this site, it's truly a mystery as to why more of them don't also visit JMA. I've only been able to keep up with the latest releases by visiting on a weekly basis.

It's because Rate Your Music has usurped just about every other database as a reliable comprehensive music site with more jazz artists and more ratings than anything even close to JMA.

Add to that the PA, MMA and JMA triumvirate are neglected and most of us experience technical glitches just trying to navigate them. If any of these sites survive into the 2030s i'd be shocked.





Edited by siLLy puPPy - December 10 2024 at 14:57

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 13:29
^It's because there is no interaction of forum members. Great site but a graveyard.
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