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The Pessimist 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 3834
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 Topic: Referrence to Classical Music
Posted: December 08 2008 at 10:59 |
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It is quite clear how classical music from all eras has effected and influenced the composition of progressive rock. However, newcomers to the site may not grasp that fact. So I was thinking, instead of fulfilling the insane task of putting every classical composer into discography form on PA (as mentioned a few times before), why don't we have an information page on how classical music has influenced Prog, alongside info on important composers to influence the genre, i.e. Stravinsky, Bach and Beethoven? I would be happy to collaborate a few paragraphs and suggestions towards the idea, as I'm sure many of the classical loving members here would as well.
What do all of you think? I think it would be a nice informative addition to this site and I would love to see it here.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Jared
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Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:05 |
^^ I like the idea, Alex...  . I'm listening to Mozart Violin Concerto No 2 as I type... 
I think Ricochet (among many others) could also contribute considerably to this.. 
...although personally I'm more on the learning end than the teaching end at present...  |
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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DavetheSlave
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Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
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Points: 492
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:23 |
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Well at least I may have gotten something right!!!!
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DavetheSlave
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:28 |
Mozart is not Prog!
Neither Bach,, Beethoven or even Stravinsky, mainly because Prog means Proressive ROCK, and as I guess you know....There's no Rock in Classical music..
Iván
A quote from my recent Stratovarius thread on which there are a few references to classical music not being prog to which I disagree whole heartedly.
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Padraic
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:32 |
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I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting that classical music is "prog" either.
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Raff
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:33 |
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This suggestion has been made several times in the past, and I remember endorsing it enthusiastically. Though I wouldn't call myself a classical music fan, my late mother was one, so I grew up listening to just about everything, from symphonic to opera. Seen as the influence of classical music (and also of related genres like Baroque or Medieval) on the formation and development of prog is nothing short of essential, I think that 'the ultimate prog site' should definitely offer a section to those who wish to learn more about the subject.
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DavetheSlave
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Joined: May 23 2007
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:38 |
Classical music didn't influence prog bands. It is the reason that this site and just about everything music wise that we love exists. I fully agree that Deep Purple are proto Prog. My argument is not that Stratovarius are one form of prog or another. My argument is that I cannot find Strat anywhere at all on the Site which I feel is absolutely not right.
Anyone want to try to tell me that Stravinsky or Mazorski are not prog even by todays standard then go ahead. Again - I don't want to see classical music on the Site at all but what I would like to see is an understanding of music. This is not Liverpool vs Arsenal - it's music - probably the deepest art form available to humankind.
I've heard it said that a musician who cannot appreciate the classics is not a musician and I agree with that whole heartedly. You will never catch me listening to much classical music because it bores me because we've advanced technologically and we have a deeper understanding of music.
I've given up the fight for Stratovarius here and maybe now and then I will enter the fray again but not now. It is obvious that I can't win.
That was my reponse relating to the Stratovarius thread!
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Jared
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Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:44 |
^^ well, let me just make my 9000th post a positive one, then... 
thanks for your comments, Raff; I agree with you totally... 
although I'm not very knowledgable about classical music, I've been listening to quite a lot this year, and would be most interested in the views of some of our more learned members, as to how classical music influenced the compositional structures and arrangements of early prog and its creators.
it isn't essential to this site, but I for one would benefit from these thoughts (and so would Alex, quite evidently) as I'm sure many other would, in the future...
and no, I'm not saying Mozart is prog, but I wonder how many early prog artists would have cited Mozart as an influence in their move away from the 3 minute radio friendly pop culture of the mid to late 60's... |
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Ricochet
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:52 |
 fandango wrote:
I think Ricochet (among many others) could also contribute considerably to this..
...although personally I'm more on the learning end than the teaching end at present... |
uhm...I could talk about classical music, I'm not sure I'd be just as prepared for "classical - prog rock" links. I would just sit back and let the avant-proggers talk about how much was Stravinski plagiarized in order for the genre to be created. 
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DavetheSlave
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:52 |
Any musician worth his or her salt in the 60's would have cited the classics as their main inspiration. Without the classics we would have had no Genesis, Yes, Rush, Marillion, Tull. Think on that. It is well known that much of Liszts music remains impossible to play properly other than by those who have studied him for years. His scales, progressions and general style are pure prog even by todays standard.
No operatic, symphonic prog - damn - what would I be doing now. Maybe jumping around a bongo drum.
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Ricochet
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 11:57 |
Oh, I thought I'd never get an opportunity to respond to this (cause in the original thread, it would have been an off-topic response to an off-topic post)
slaver wrote:
Classical music didn't influence prog bands. It is the reason that this site and just about everything music wise that we love exists. [...] Wrong. EDIT: But wait! You're just saying the opposite thing a post above!!
Anyone want to try to tell me that Stravinsky or Mazorski are not prog even by todays standard then go ahead. [...] We're derailing, talking about "progressiveness" inside classical music.
Again - I don't want to see classical music on the Site at all. [...] Who said they want to see classical music on the site?
You will never catch me listening to much classical music because it bores me because we've advanced technologically and we have a deeper understanding of music. Totally disagree with your sort of point, but that's already way off-topic.
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Slaver, you've been putting a lot of suspicious work into the Stratovarius/Korn threads these days, but this topic is different and doesn't relate to the issue about Stratovarius and Korn in any way. So, perhaps it's best to stick to the original idea of this thread.
Edited by Ricochet - December 08 2008 at 11:58
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DavetheSlave
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Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
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Points: 492
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:10 |
Rocochet - you obviously don't play a musical instrument. How can anybody tell me that without the classics we would understaqnd what prog music is today. Man - no wonder Strat and Korn aint here!!!
Sometimes I just get stunned!!!
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Raff
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:16 |
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DavetheSlave
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Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
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Points: 492
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:19 |
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I'm glad to hear it - and he don't place too much store in classical music???? Don't wanna hear him play that's for sure. Oh, and he don't read what's said in the threads properly either!
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The Quiet One
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Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:32 |
^lol! Are you really human? It seems you're a "Revolutionary Bot", if that really exists. You try to say everything opposite side from what everyone tells you. Damn technology! I want to have a "Revolutionary Bot" too! 
Edited by cacho - December 08 2008 at 12:33
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DavetheSlave
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Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:41 |
Hi cacho - if someone tells me that Dream Theater is the top prog metal band we'll have a scintilating discussion. If someone agrees with me about Strat... then we'll be best of friends. Someone who tells me that classical music isn't the forerunner of all that we know here and then I'm a gonna fight with him!!
Your happy neighbourhood revolutionary Bot!!!
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Jared
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Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:41 |
slaver wrote:
I'm glad to hear it - and he don't place too much store in classical music???? |
Riccy makes me feel humble... he's half my age and knows more than twice as much...
So, slaver, you're not going to win this one, I'm afraid...
Anyone have anything constructive to say on Alex's initial proposal??
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:46 |
Hey fandango - Ricky will make me feel humble when he can play a Liszt concerto - or when he takes back that statement / comment inferring that classical music isn't solely responsible for all that we know and love here.
I am all for Alex's proposal. We can't put each classical composer onto progarchives but a page or two devoted to the classics would make happy and would put things for newbies wanting to discover good music into proper perspective.
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micky
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:49 |
slaver wrote:
Rocochet - you obviously don't play a musical instrument. How can anybody tell me that without the classics we would understaqnd what prog music is today. Man - no wonder Strat and Korn aint here!!!
Sometimes I just get stunned!!! |
I know the feelling.... stunned.... at least you get the famed.... MICKY POST OF THE YEAR... and a feature spotlight... in my sig....  just had to pop in to congratulate you
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Vompatti
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Joined: October 22 2005
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 12:51 |
"Sometimes I Just Get Stunned" would make a great title for a hair metal song. 
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Referrence to Classical Music
