Prog Metal: Organizing the categories |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21133 |
Topic: Prog Metal: Organizing the categories Posted: October 25 2005 at 16:44 |
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Edit: My announcement seems to have caused some confusion and opposition among a few members (especially the Baldies). Let me just point out that I by no means meant prog-metal is the only genré that needs to be reworked; on the contrary, I think other genrés like symphonic and art-rock need an overhauling too; but these are genrés I feel not competent for. I have been busy in the last few days thinking about how Prog Metal can be categorized. Have a look at this chart: http://ratingfreak.com/home/progarchives/progmetalchart/subgenres.xhtml I created this thread to gather feedback ... tell me what you think about the idea of splitting the genre. I'd appreciate any feedback, especially on the bands that aren't yet categorized, but of course also if you think that a band belongs to a different category. However, I'm not asking IF I should do this ... I have discussed this with the admins and I will proceed. So, tell me what you think about it! BTW: Currently I'm planning to introduce three categories instead of Prog Metal:
IMO it makes sense to combine Orchestral/Power and Neo/Symphonic, because many bands are borderline. So if you feel that a band which is categorized as Neo but is in fact Symphonic, that is not as important right now than if a Symphonic band is in fact Power. Edit: Thanks to king16, TheProgtologist and Useful_Idiot for your help ! Edit: the following is a post from page 4 of the thread ... I added it to this post as well. There was a discussion about this some time ago - is Prog Metal a sub genre of Prog Rock or not? Well, yes and no. This diagram is just a rough sketch - the Prog Rock box is meant to contain all Prog Rock genres, I simply didn't have enough space, and the bands are just random picks. The point is the relation between Rock, Prog Rock, Metal and Prog Metal. At least this is how I think about it. Prog Metal is not a normal subgenre of Prog Rock ... It is a "sub genre" of Metal, which is a sub genre of Rock. Another way of putting this is that many (nearly all) sub genres of Prog Rock are also present within Prog Metal. So in essence we COULD (I'm not saying that we SHOULD) clone most of the genres we have:
OR
But IMO both these approaches aren't sensible. The first would introduce far too many genres, and the second would alienate people who don't like metal, and even with all the similarities Metal based bands still often are very different from Rock based bands, so you can't really throw them in the same genre. But Metal IS a sub genre of Rock, so there definitely is a connection. Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 09 2007 at 13:36 |
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4928 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 16:49 | |
Me thinks You just got a bit messed up with the symphonic/neo bit... lets say I have a quite different way of categorizing prog metal... Maybe we should post all the stuff bout this in this thread? but write only when You are 100% sure! Have nice explanations & some band examples!
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21133 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 16:56 | |
^ Sure ... post anything you'd like to say about the subject ... but try to be constructive. Don't just say "it sucks", but try to suggest how it can be improved.
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horza
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 31 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2530 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:03 | |
looks good so far
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot. |
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Crushed Aria
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 01 2005 Status: Offline Points: 184 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:03 | |
Whatever you do do not use that list ... >_> they called Dillenger Escape Plan avant-garde.
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4928 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:13 | |
Mike, that way of meting neo with symphonic etc is IMO far better.... Sometimes its quite hard 2 Judge weather a band is symphonic or Neo... The strangest thing is that people have their own definitions of the word symphonic & neo in music... This is gonna be damn hard 2 pull of... But still quite a good idea... Maybe I'll try 2 make my won.... How bout:
Ow God this is gonnna hit a dead end.... |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21133 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:17 | |
Ed: looks nice ... it kind of looks like my categorization - if you replace virtuose with symphonic. At first I had much more categories ... space, epic, doom, gothic. But I want to keep this simple ... About Neo Prog: I'm not an expert here ... but I asked some knowledgeable colleagues, most notably TheProgtologist.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia |
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ulver982
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 07 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 266 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:33 | |
Yeah you should...then bands like Solefald, Sigh, Heavenly, Sonata Arctica, etc will have a place.
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Improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement, are roads of genius.
Silence is the music of the future. |
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Crushed Aria
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 01 2005 Status: Offline Points: 184 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:34 | |
Sonata Arctica and Heavenly should not be here.
Solefald definatly. Sigh maybe. |
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4928 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:37 | |
Please leave the bands argument outta here! We are trying 2 create prog metal sub genres, not argue bout the progressiveness of band over & over again... |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21133 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:38 | |
I'd like to point out that the creation of these categories doesn't imply in any way that the band addition policy will be changed. Sonata Arctica might be added if they pass the band addition procedure, no matter if a "Power" category exists or not.
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yargh
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:44 | |
This site is already over-categorized to its detriment -- why add to the problem?
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:47 | |
....Thanks Ed,I couldn't have said it better myself. |
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:48 | |
A LOT of work was put into this,don't blow it off so easily. We listened to songs and samples from every single band on that list. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21133 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:49 | |
It would only be two more categories, and they will provide a better introduction to prog metal for newbies. Prog Metal is a very diverse genre, much more so than the other prog genres except Symphonic Prog Rock and Krautrock, which also need an overhaul. |
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:53 | |
If you look at the description of the Avant/Experimental category,you should realize the TDEP fit it to a T. |
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 09 2005 Location: Entropia Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:57 | |
Im all for it and i think Ed's list is pretty good at spliting up prog metal BTW- didnt know there was a neo metal |
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 17:59 | |
The splits and sub-genres have already been made.There were a lot more,but they have been whittled down,and some combined. Edited by TheProgtologist |
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Crushed Aria
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 01 2005 Status: Offline Points: 184 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 18:18 | |
The reason they do not belong there is because they are not metal, that site doesn't know sh*t as to how to categorize the different bands. Solefald, Transcending Bizarre?, etc should be in Avant-garde not DEP, who are hardcore. That list is so full of fallacies anyways, AGALLOCH under orchestral. No. Agalloch are folk metal. If you include power in there you may as well include death metal as bands like Death went all Prog. Death later in their career. You honestly should not classify Prog. Metal as it is too difficult a thing to do anyways. Edited by Crushed Aria |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: October 25 2005 at 18:19 | |
Can't believe it, I agree 100% with Yargh. We are going too far with this metal thing, if we are doing this why don't add:
For wxample, British, USA, Celtic, Latin and Greek Folk Prog bands are more differentb among them than any metal band. British Psychedelia is absolutely different to USA/San Francisco Psychedelia, there are 100 more reasons to separete them, but probably it's not the newest fashion as Prog Metal. We could go for ever and ever, why so much work for a genre like Prog' Metal which is barely Progressive? (With a few exceptions). This is a Prog place for Prog music, Prog Metal is only a sub-genre more, noit the main reason of Prog Archives to exist, or are we trying to gain more members by using metal? I know it's a lot of work, but for what? to please only the Prog Metal fans? Iván |
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