Does prog have to be complex to be prog? |
Post Reply | Page 123 7> |
Author | |||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18278 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: January 18 2024 at 14:08 |
||
By complex I mean super virtuosic with crazy time signatures etc. I thought of adding more options but decided to keep it simple (simple for me anyway).
|
|||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Yes, it does.
|
|||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|||
Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43717 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
No
|
|||
Heart of the Matter
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2020 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 3122 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Surely no, many progressive classics are just songs.
|
|||
MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
No. Post-Rock would be a typical example where most of the iconic releases are neither virtuosic nor feature many time-signature changes.
|
|||
Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11617 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Nah. It shouldn't follow the radio friendly verse, chorus, repeat, and throw in a bridge format.
|
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18278 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I agree. I can't think of "wonderous stories" or "I know what I like" as anything but prog and they aren't complex. I'm sure there are tons of other examples too. I started this poll because I seem to keep hearing (mostly online) people say prog has to be complicated with odd time sigs to be prog. If that's the case then a lot of neo, prog folk, psych prog, post rock etc. aren't prog. A lot of stuff by Big Big Train is mostly just songs and not complex. If they aren't prog then what are they?
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 18 2024 at 14:31 |
|||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Bad prog. |
|||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|||
MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
|
|||
MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
You're both wrong. Neither is most of the highly rated Big Big Train "stuff" "mostly just songs and not complex", nor are they bad, from an objective standpoint (judging the quality of the compositions, the musicianship and so on). But you don't have to like them
|
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18278 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
So complex equals good. Gotcha.
|
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18278 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Did you listen to their last album Welcome to the Planet? The first half is regular songs and not very complicated. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't fit the description of what a lot of purists might consider "true prog." A bunch of other stuff that I've heard by them is also song oriented and not very complex.
|
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18278 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
|
|||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Then those songs aren't progressive rock. It's not an insult, just musical analysis. |
|||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|||
Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65266 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
This is pop music. Good & clever, but pop. Again, not an insult. |
|||
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|||
Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5364 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
yes and no, depends on the type and your definition of complexity
Edited by Hrychu - January 18 2024 at 14:55 |
|||
On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
|||
MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I disagree. "Song-oriented"? Sure, but most of that are epic songs with many parts and quirks that go beyond typical song structures. Add to that the big instrumentation with flutes and violins, and everything is masterfully composed together in a truly symphonic way, just as Yes and Genesis did way back when. IMHO Big Big Train have been and still are doing a great job of keeping the true spirit of prog alive. Case in point: |
|||
Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5364 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
here's an example:
Itoiz - Ezekiel I don't wanna repeat myself so I'm gonna quote an old PA post I made
|
|||
On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
|||
AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18278 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
So for you it's all about the song structure. Verse, chorus song structure can't by definition be "prog." Is that it? What if there was a five minute instrumental section with a synth solo and or mellotron? I've heard stuff that was very simple sounding but had keyboad solos and a keyboard sound called prog probably because of the keys. Take the keys out and it's rock or maybe jam band or something else.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 18 2024 at 15:10 |
|||
Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 11617 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
||
Here is a non-complex prog song.
|
|||
Post Reply | Page 123 7> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |