Hendrix?

Hi all - if I may add my own 10 cents here - I've been thinking about the subject and was of two minds - Hendrix most definately influenced many many guitarists and in fact the instrument itself as we know and love it today. I remember that he used to kick holes in speakers on stage to get different effects back then and use electronic feedback between his guitar, the amps and the Speakers to get desired sound at times. He took the guitar and made it into something even greater than it was then.

micky wrote: Easy Money wrote: There are many reasons that Hendrix has a strong relationship to prog. Many proggy songs, many more semi-proggy songs, his musically revolutionary interactions with Mitch Mitchell, his many jams and recordings with Robert Wyatt and other prog artists plus gigs at the Marque with almost every early prog artist in Britain plus tours with Pink Floyd, the many testamonies of his influence from Fripp, Emerson, Lord, Blackmore, Townsend, McLaughlin, Santana, Miles and many others, and his entirely revolutionary effect on rock in general including prog rock. Rock became much bigger and much more imaginative after Jimi came along. I think this is something that is hard to understand unless you were alive back then. The buzz about Hendrix was incredible, he really moved people and totally blew people away, more than the Beatles, the Doors or Dylan or any other artist who generated a lot of word of mouth type news back then. Oh Yeah, his last band was a psychedelic jazz fusion band with Larry Young on kybds (ex-McLaughlin, Miles, Santana). oh he is definitely prog-related... but as we all know... who really ISN'T prog-related.  If the site makes that call..who really complain.  I overdrafted my bitching account with Zeppelin's addition hahah.. in comparison to that I guess hahha .. Hendrix is far more related.for discussions sake though John.. here is the root why I am against Hendrix here..  like our friend Dave the Slayer says.. open Hendrix... Cream and the Yardbirds thus should follow then. If the site wants them as well.. then bring on Hendrix hahah. Dick Heath wrote: micky wrote: 'Progressive rock' was a reaction against... exactly that kind of music.  I would strongly refute that suggestion - in theory the "reaction against"  argument may be used in the context of punk and the dynosaurs of rock. Prog rock grew out of, in part, the (British) blues boom of the mid to late 60's. yes it did grow out of it...  key word.. OUT of it..  the blues boom you speak of quickly, in the late 60's, became the psychedelic movement...  groups like the Stones dipped their toes but generally stayed away from it and always remained true to American blues inspired music... and away from prog rock completely.  However to simpify .. English psychedelic rock of the 60's can be said to have broken into three wings...   one dominated by the Yardbirds, Hendrix and Cream. That featured simple blues-based harmonic progression, and repetitive guitar riffs.  Keyboards and vocal harmonies that were so prominent in progressive rock were largely absent.a second ...dominated by Traffic, Colesseum and the Canterbury dynamic duo. That used woodwinds in addition to progressive rock standard of keyboards, and bass, guitar, and drums.  Harmonic patterns were MUCH more complex than the psychedelic branch noted above.  Of course this was the roots of what you know well as English Jazz-Rock.  Which Jack Bruce identified much more than his work with Cream.  the third..  what we largely consider proto prog here.. or did before many started being moved... were groups such as Moody Blues, Nice, Procol Harem and of course Floyd. Where large scale construction was emphasized over getting your rocks off with lengthy guitar jams based on simple blues progressions.  if that breakdown has some merit Richard... then is it fair not to say that progressive rock.. was in a way a reaction to ...an opposite of in a way to what Cream, Hendrix and the Yardbirds were doing.  Of course blues has always had a place in prog...  but we are not exactly talking about the Blues here...  we are talking the fragmentation of the psychedelic movement which was what gave birth to prog.  In that case...  groups like Cream, Hendrix, and the Yardbirds... and I will add the Allman Brothers.. who have as much a musical case for entry as any of them.. were on the psychedelic raft that got left behind when when progressive rock.. or Prog.. since the two can be interchangable.. or seperate.  As I like to say.. what made the music of that time so great.. was it was ALL progressive...  but maybe it is just me.. prog rock as we define it here....is a subset of that.  of 'progressive rock'In deed, how many prog music/progressive rock bands continued to use blues: Colosseum for a start. Micky take a look at the first prog rock sampler listed here, Wowie Zowie The World Of Progressive Music, and you'll find at least 2 straight blues tracks not a million millions from Cream - and at the time we did not think their inclusion was out of place. How much did Tull's first album take from the lead of Cream - even the track Cat Squirrel is lifted from the first Cream album? And let me repeat us old freaks in our late teens would have found Canned Heat and John Mayall in the section labelled "Progressive Music" in record shops.   Indeed in part the confidence rock musicians gain from the likes of Cream's ability  to jam and display virtuosity, the ability to improv like jazz musicians, contributed moving from 3 minute pop songs, to compositions/arrangements that could hold together for a side of an LP. BTW I'm not saying that blues was the major component rather an equal component. e.g. Listening to Jefferson Airplane's Bless Its Pointed Little Head recently, and reminded you get the blues biassed Casidy and Kaukonen infusing the psychedelia of the rest of the band, on longish jams. I couldn't agree more with the rest... and if we are to recognize that as being prog... I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem with it.  I have had to fight off the impulse to call for The Allman Brothers to be here.   Raff tells me all the time I should suggest them.  If the bar is adjusted to that level.  They, my ALLTIME favorite group.. is  a shoe in here  It is not exactly how I see prog...  my mantra..  prog is art.... auditory art.. .there is an artistic asethtic to it.. not just about improv.. great solos  or lengthy compositions... but it was about rock made BY well off, well educated English musicians in that day for audiences that were the same.  My two cents my friend... curious as to what you think.  I don't think they ... Cream, Hendrix or the Yardbirds...belong here...  but who the hell am I. Just an a****le with an opinion hahahha

Richard never replied..  any thoughts John?[/QUOTE]



If you stack those bands in order of relevance to prog I would put Hendrix first then Cream, then Yardbirds, then Allmanns (Dead might belong too). I don't have a problem with any of those bands being on PA, but Hendrix should come first:
1) More actual proggy songs
2) much stronger playing and improvs (thanks a lot to Mitchell's incredible and influential playing, listen to early Bruford, Giles, Bunker and many others and you are hearing Mitchell)
3) Stronger impact and more interaction with early proggers, don't listen to what I say about Jimi, read old interviews with Fripp, Emerson, Ian Anderson, Robert Wyatt, Pink Floyd, Zappa, Townsend, McLauglin, Lord, Blackmore, Santana, Miles etc let them tell you what an impact Hendrix had.
4) Hendrix's last band was straight up psychedelic JR with fusion vet Larry Young on kybds.

Here is why proggers don't get Hendrix: yes he played the blues, a virtual death sentence in the early days of prog, but the rules have been loosened over the years and blues based artists such as Captain Beefheart are seen as prog now. Pink Floyd's music is blues based, but it has that Brit accent.

Blue collar American voice: I swear if you take Hendrix's semi proggy artsy psychedelic songs and put a British art school voice on them he would be here so fast your head would spin.

Lack of knowledge of his entire output: If I wasn't so lazy I would list his proggy songs, but I bet most are familiar with about half of them.

Interesting side note: have you ever noticed the similar song writing styles between Hendrix and early gig mates Robert Wyatt and Syd Barret, all have this interesting way of changing the rhythm of a song to fit the words. Did you know Hendrix has at least two instrumentals that show a strong relationship with Canterbury JR.



P.S. have you heard modern Allmans tunes, straight up JR with a rural American twist, yes they belong, but not ahead of Jimi.

P.S. P.S. I'm least enthusiastic about the Yardbirds, despite many early innovations, they could be kind of Brit RnB pop too.

Edited by Easy Money - December 13 2008 at 10:31

Easy Money wrote: P.S. P.S. I'm least enthusiastic about the Yardbirds, despite many early innovations, they could be kind of Brit RnB pop too.

I'm really not a Hendrix fan-boy, I rarely if ever listen to his music, but I am a fan of accurate musicology and Hendrix's influence on early prog rock and actual proggy output should be recognised and acknowledged. This is one of the few prog forums that doesn't.

P.S. Regarding blue collar voices, this is why Jonsey didn't make it big, the music was there, but not the British art school voice.

Edited by Easy Money - December 13 2008 at 08:56

I'm just dropping in this discussion here and haven't read the entire thread yet so maybe my following point has already been made but if Hendrix is added and such thoughts have crossed my mind over the years, should that be in proto-prog or in psychedelic/space ? I believe that's a pretty close call, isn't it ?