Cem Karaca (Turkish progressive master) - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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DADALLAR

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Posted: March 14 2009 at 15:37

Ufak bir düzetme için Türkçe yazıyorum sevgili ""Dervişan"". Murat TÖZ adı geçen dönemlerde ASLA Kurtalan Ekspres' de çalmamıştır. Kendisi Cem Karaca' yı sahnede görüp müzikten çok etkilendiği için müzisyen olmaya karar vermiş ve bir gün Cem KARACA' yla çalabilmek için de var gücüyle çalışmış sonunda da Oğuz DURUKAN' ın yerine Dervişan saflarına katılmıştır. 2023 LP' sinin genelinde Bass Gitarları Mithat DANIŞAN çalmıştır. Daha eski dönemde kaydedilmiş olan Lambaya Püf Deee gibi şarkılarda ise büyük ihtimalle Bass Gitarl Özkan UĞUR çalmıştır.

Bilginize

Dean

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Posted: March 14 2009 at 16:06

Originally posted by DADALLAR - translated by Google

DADALLAR - translated by Google wrote:

I am writing for the Turkish to a level little darling "" Dervişan "". NEVER mentioned periods Murat POWDER Kurtalan Express' did not play it. He Cem Karaca 't see on the stage and the effects of music for many musicians to be decided, and one day, Cem Karaca' to play with full force to work with the end of the Oğuz DURUKAN 'instead of pure Dervişan participated. 2023 LP 'sinin has played in the Bass Guitars from Mithat ADVISORY. Older dönemde recorded songs such as The Light in the Püf Deee probably have been playing Bass Gitarl UGUR Özkan.

FYI

Post in English only please. Thank You

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Bilek

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Posted: March 14 2009 at 16:22

Just to make a remark: that google translation is hilarious! It absolutely has nothing to do with the original meaning LOL

In case DADALLAR is not able to provide translation, I can do that later. And I need to pull of an answer to Ivan, just waiting for my mood to settle down and my "bitter disappointment" to be over Tongue

DADALLAR, my friend, people with brilliant Anatolian Rock knowledge like you are desperately needed here Wink

. That nick seems like a typographical error for "Dadaşlar" btw Smile

. Thanks for the info! Let's keep in touch...

Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)

Dean

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Posted: March 14 2009 at 16:52

^ Even more hilarious is Google translated "Türkçe" as "English" (even I could see the error in that and corrected it).

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DADALLAR

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Posted: March 14 2009 at 17:05

Thanksss Bilek

Bilek

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Posted: March 14 2009 at 17:19

Dean wrote:

^ Even more hilarious is Google translated "Türkçe" as "English" (even I could see the error in that and corrected it).

I can see why. I'm a professional translator, and when we're working with charts, (i.e. one column featuring English items, the other target language, which is Turkish in my case Smile

) and on translation software such as Trados Translator's Workbench, "English" is usually translated as "Türkçe" Big smile

One thing which made me laugh is that google translated one surname (danışman) as "advisory" LOL

.. .Of course, how would it have guessed LOL

btw, our new friend PM'ed me and told me his English wasn't adequate enough, so I'll handle that for him. (as he already thanked me above LOL

). Give me some time Smile

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: March 15 2009 at 12:22

Bilek wrote:

I need to pull of an answer to Ivan, just waiting for my mood to settle down and my "bitter disappointment" to be over Tongue

Settle down Bilek?

I'm just giving my honest opinion after listening carefuly the music Dervisan sent.

You can't expect 100% of support, especially inm such a borderline case as Cem Karaca, but at least replies from people who has heard the albums.

I don't believe Cem Karaca should be here except in Prog Related.

You are taking it too personal, if you propose a band, all you can expect is an honest reply, i won't say he's Prog bercause IMHO he isn't, again, barely Prog Related..

Iván

npjnpj

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Posted: March 16 2009 at 02:10

Weekend's over and coming back to you as promised: Sorry, my impressions haven't changed, I'm with Ivan on this one.

Dervisan

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Posted: April 15 2009 at 10:09

i am back .. i m really sorry .. i couldnt be online because of my job.. i have left it already :D i am not used to work hard :D

hi everybody again :) ivan. your trouble is here hehe :D

Turkish (Anatolian) Progressive Psychedelic Ethnical Rock

Dervisan

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Posted: April 15 2009 at 10:19

i think you never listen my all links... it s so bad... i have worked hard to upload them...

ok listen them all anf after that speak.. if you havent listen them yet please dont speak... i wish you listen and speak with me...

Turkish (Anatolian) Progressive Psychedelic Ethnical Rock

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 15 2009 at 12:22

Dervisan wrote:

i think you never listen my all links... it s so bad... i have worked hard to upload them...

ok listen them all anf after that speak.. if you havent listen them yet please dont speak... i wish you listen and speak with me...

Please don't disrespect me, I never speak without listening first.

I listened each and every link you provided, giving an opinion without having heard your links, would be a disrespect for the site, you and for me.

You say you worked hard to add the links of an artist you want to add, many of us worked four years adding hundreds of bands others provided, with absolutely no special interest for the artist,, being that in some cases we didn't even knew them before the suggestion

You are a newbie, so you don't know me, I may discuss and debate, but in four years here, I have never done it without a previous and careful research, maybe you talk because you are able discuss without knowing, I can't, that would be silly and futile.

Heard his nmusic and all your links, researched obn other places but still think he's barely related.

Iván

PS: I won't stop speaking for you or for anybody.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 15 2009 at 12:29

Dervisan

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 18:29

owww i am sorry ivan ... but i wrote these words for npjnpj... because he said "i didnt listen all links" ... and really i didnt want to say a bad thing.. you know my english is really terrible...

and i trust your honesty.if i dont i never say "your trouble came back ivan" Smile

absolutely i understand you but i need more comments about cem karaca and the others.. but i think it s really so hard in here..

sorry but if you can say cem karaca-dervisan and cem karaca-edirdahan bands havent done prog rock and if it s true i will never listen prog rock again... because i dont know anything about this music...

again i have to say cem karaca-dervişan's "sevdan beni" or "parka" or "kerem gibi" or "maden ocağının dibinde" are better that a lot of songs in this site that you promote.. we are talking about long time not only 1 or 2 years.. sorry but cem karaca-apaşlar's (with freddy klein orchestra) songs are more prog that a lots in this site... i try to say this..

absolutely he hasnt done progressive in his all music life because his music life is nearly 40 years ivan, 40 yearsssss .. who did this?? camel?? genesis?? who??

Edited by Dervisan - April 18 2009 at 18:30

Turkish (Anatolian) Progressive Psychedelic Ethnical Rock

Dervisan

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 18:35

http://www.imeem.com/progressiverock/music/_5SuDs67/cem_karacadervisan_04_maden_ocaginin_dibindemp3/

say me what is this ivan? only a simple song??

Turkish (Anatolian) Progressive Psychedelic Ethnical Rock

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 19:09

Dervisan wrote:

http://www.imeem.com/progressiverock/music/_5SuDs67/cem_karacadervisan_04_maden_ocaginin_dibindemp3/

say me what is this ivan? only a simple song??

You want an honest answer?

It's a very simple Folkish track witrh heavy Rock fugues, but mainly is one chorus repeated several times, the keyboard sounds very Psyche oriented with some Deep Purple reminiscences (seems like a copy of the organ sections of BURN in some passages), but at the most Prog Related IMHO.

This doesn't mean i don't like the track, it's very catchy, but not remotely Prog.

Even if it was a Prog track (which is not in my opinion), you judge an artist by a career, anmd in his 40 years seems he diidn't recorded a single 100% Prog album, so it's place IMO is Prog Related as i said a couple years ago.

Iván

BTW; King Crimson is 41 years old and is Prog in every release, The Rolling Stiones are not Prog (maybe related in Their Satanic majesties Request)and much older, The Who also 44 or 45 years old and only 2 related albums, so being long time obn the spot, doesn't make an artist Prog.

BTW II: Don't worry, i don't feel offended by your words.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 18 2009 at 19:12

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 20:01

Dervisan wrote:

sorry but if you can say cem karaca-dervisan and cem karaca-edirdahan bands havent done prog rock and if it s true i will never listen prog rock again... because i dont know anything about this music...

That's not the answer Dervisan.

When I joined my first Prog Forum back in the late 90's, i knew about 20 or 30 bands, and thought I was an expert.

Today I know about 800, and i'm convinced I know very little, because there's so much Prog out there.

So if you think you don''t know a lot of Prog, no problem, you are still young I guess, and you have time to learn a lot, and Prog Archives is the best place.

Iván

Dervisan

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 20:27

i have send a message but i have deleted it .. i think i need some silence...

Turkish (Anatolian) Progressive Psychedelic Ethnical Rock

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 20:59

But don't worry, I decide nothing here, except in the Symphonic Team, and Cem Karavca is not Symphonic.

I believe other teams have the responsability of deciding here, Prog Related and maybe the Prog Folk Team, but that's their call.

I only give my opinion.

Iván

Dervisan

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 21:04

i never say that i am an expert of prog rock .. but i am an expert of turkish prog psyche rock... are you an expert of turkish prog and psyche??? if you dont, you can learn something...

it s enough to know general rules of prog to say where is the place turkis prog and psyche in world prog and psyche music

i wanna say a lot of thing to you but my english knowledge dont let me...

i wanna try to promote my country's prog or not, rock music and you are learning.. but you are kidding with me.. who are you ivan?? my father?? i dont wanna discuss this with you anymore.. pls go and kidding with another child... (it s strange and really offensive words and really offended me)

absolutely i will learn a lot in my every age.. but i wont learn them from you, sorry..

i am bored dean... tell me what will you do???

Turkish (Anatolian) Progressive Psychedelic Ethnical Rock

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 18 2009 at 21:21

Hey, I'm not kidding with you, I don't kid with people, if I see a post worth answering, I reply, if not, I just ignore it, if I reply to your post is because I care, and I assume you're ready to accept any honest answer, but seems that's not the case.

I'm not an expert in Turkish Prog or Turkish Folk, but I have an idea of what is Prog and what is not, and you asked my opinion

Dervisan wrote:

say me what is this ivan? only a simple song??

I answered, but you don't like the answer so you kick the board and become aggressive, if you don't want to learn from me, it's your problem, I'm learning a lot from you.

Now, I'm not the one who said you know nothing about Prog, you said it.:

I don't know you, much less your knowledge, and I never give opinions about what i don't know,

I believe you misunderstood my posts, until know I showed nothing but respect for Cem Karaca's music, but i don'tt believe he's a 100% Prog artist, and that's my honest opinion.

Some collaborators recieve insults, and aggessions, but they go on, you have received only polite but honest replies, simply you haven't received the replies you wanted and that pisses you.

You say you are here to promote YOUR COUNTRY'S MUSIC, we are all here to promote Prog from every country, If I cared only about my country bands, what a loss of time it would be, if one is accepted, great, if not, also great.

At the end neither you or me will decide anything about Cem Karaca being added, this is a discussion forum and I only give opinions because I'm entitled to give them, other teams will decide

I hope he's accepted in Prog Related, because long before you came i was asking for his addition to PR,

Originally posted by Ivan_MelgarM on May 20 2007 at 00:24

Ivan_MelgarM on May 20 2007 at 00:24 wrote:

Cem Karaca: Another hard task, the guy is from Turkey, except for Allmusic (Not reliable at all) all the info is in Turkish and his lyrics are mostly in Ancient Anatolian. Cem Karaca was a prolific and polemic musician/Marxist politician who had an amazing live, even accused of treason because of his ideas and later received a pardon. For the samples I could find everywhere and the information available, he played some sort of Pop/Proggish ethnic music, not adequate for Symphonic at all, even made some Rap…In Anatolian!!!!…The Orchestral tracks are the less Prog (A paradox) sound like French Chanson in some weird language but very mainstream

I don’t dare to recommend him to Prog Folk, too mainstream IMHO, should be checked for Prog Related……According to Bob could be Avant Rio mostly for the lyrics BUT NO WAY SYMPHONIC…..

http://www.progarchives.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38137&KW=master+list

And still believe that where he should be along with many great artists who are not 100% Prog, and if he's accepted by any team, I will respect their opinion even if i don't share it.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 19 2009 at 19:06

Dean

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Posted: April 19 2009 at 05:12

Dervisan wrote:

i am bored dean... tell me what will you do???

I will discuss this with Bilek. Bilek is working on adding one Anatonlian Rock artist to Psyche/Space Rock we are undecided about the others. I recomend you leave this with us and post no more samples and links as we are now overloaded - you have presented us with enough information to make a decision.

I feel that the subject needs better coverage within Prog Archives although the development from 1960s Psyche Rock did not follow the same path as English, German and American pscyhe into what is defined as Progressive Rock. We will resolve this in someway - I just don't know how at the moment.

I know you are passionate about this but I must ask you to be less forceful with the Collaborators - we are all volunteers here and do this because we want to, not because we have to.

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