Actually if extreme prog is these math rock bands ala Hella or Flying Luttenbergers, I must say that yes, I find that some of them don't belong. Others just as experimental like Throbbing Gristle (not yet included) are also rather difficult to deal with.....

List of things I'm tired of related to Prog Archives (in order):

1. Obnoxious Magma fans
2. Progressive vs. Regressive arguments
3. "Oh this obscure band is my favorite!"   *two weeks later*    "Oh this other obscure band is now my favorite!" people
4. Site n00bs who have their own, stupid, narrow definition of prog
5. People who think anything after ___ date isn't prog
6. People who think Marillion sounds like Genesis
7. Interesting threads dying away while stupid old arguments live on

I'm in a pissy mood, so if you're upset, whipe off the sh*t I just threw on you and walk away.

And notice, I'm not tired of a genre that belongs on this site. Unless it's Zeuhl. Then I'm really f**king tired of it.

The Crow wrote: warwick wrote: I was raised on Pink Floyd and Genesis. As much as I tried, I can't see how one can like both classical prog and the likes of Opeth and Meshuggah ... I think there are too many bands that don't belong to this site (alas, where are good old days when progarchives was clean of ads and Radiohead?), especially extreme metal! Just being a bit open-minded, I guess... I enjoy hearing Yes's "Close to the Edge" the same as I do with the very hard Meshuggah's "Destroy Erase Improve", or the great Cynic's "Focus". But in the same time, I have goosegumps every time I hear Kitaro's "Silk Road", or some Rachmaninov piano concerts... I listen music, and if I like, I embrace it... And I don't care wich genre it belongs... Death metal, new age, pop, stoner, symphonic, alternative rock, glam, or even prog... If it makes me feel good, It's Ok for me! And sorry, but Prog has changed a lot since the 70's... But some people don't want to see it!

el böthy wrote: stonebeard wrote: List of things I'm tired of related to Prog Archives (in order): 1. Obnoxious Magma fans 2. Progressive vs. Regressive arguments 3. "Oh this obscure band is my favorite!"   *two weeks later*    "Oh this other obscure band is now my favorite!" people 4. Site n00bs who have their own, stupid, narrow definition of prog 5. People who think anything after ___ date isn't prog 6. People who think Marillion sounds like Genesis 7. Interesting threads dying away while stupid old arguments live on I'm in a pissy mood, so if you're upset, whipe off the sh*t I just threw on you and walk away. And notice, I'm not tired of a genre that belongs on this site. Unless it's Zeuhl. Then I'm really f**king tired of it. I think someone´s got his period

fyi: that doesn't happen to men.

schizoid_man77 wrote: Rocktopus wrote: And maybe the reason it because of the large amount of suggested metal that doesn't belong here, suggested by clueless teens.   Wow, this is how I feel about a good percentage of this sites users. Clueless people who just join for Yes, and Genesis, making poll's comparing the two, adn bashing metal cause they cant cant their close minded heads out of the frikken seventies.

I've heard talk of this "stuck in the 70s" crap too much.

- This is not a personal attack, I am merely using examples. I am speaking in general, and when I say "you" I don't necessarily mean schizoid_man77 -

Progressive Rock was a 70s movement. It began in 1969. It ended in 1977. That's it. That's fact. Current or modern bands that are a little out there, or non-commercial, or produce long, or complex songs are now tagged prog. They are not Progressive Rock. They were not in the 70s movement. They aren't even related. Is Wolfmother a 'classic rock' band for being inspired by Zeppelin? Hell no, they're not involved in the drugged up hippie 60s and 70s movement. So when people complain that modern bands don't belong here, they aren't stuck in the seventies, they're just interested in the preservation of musical history.

Also, why is being stuck in the seventies a crime? Ian, your top artist on last.fm is currently Ulver, is it not? Tell me, have Ulver released an album this year? No, they haven't. Their most recent release was 2007. In fact, I notice you listen to a lot of albums released in 2007. I accuse you of being stuck in 2007! Come on, Ian, that music is a year old! The same stuff will never be made again, you have to move forward. It's all about the future. I mean, you really shouldn't enjoy that dated stuff, it's so primitive, so unsophisticated. I figure the obvious retort is something like "one year and thirty five are very different, Josh, don't be a child," so I'll save you the trouble.

One year ago and thirty five are very different, Josh.

A valid argument! If then, one year old music is still infantile, and thus credible as 'new music', then what age defines when young music becomes old? Is there a line? Does twenty years of withering make music invalid? If that's the case, 18 years from now you could still enjoy your Shadows of the Sun, but the second you count down to New Year's...ten...nine...eight...seven...six...five...four...three...two...one...BANG! Well I guess you can throw out that old crap, now. It's twenty years old, God forbid you listen to that ancient stuff when there's new music to listen to instead! The natural reply would be something like "Well obviously there isn't a definite age that defines what is old stuff." Fair enough. I agree with you (provided you agree with me, see?)

So now I raise the question again. What's wrong with being stuck in the seventies? If we can't decide on a specific age that music becomes obsolete, then stuck in the seventies merely means stuck in the past. With that in mind, as soon as an album is released it become obsolete. It's all about the future, is it? What's to come is more important than what you have, is it?

Clueless people join ProgArchives for Yes and Genesis? Of course they do. That's what Progressive Rock is. This new stuff is something different, with maybe a few comparable elements. So why do you blame them? This is a progressive rock website, man.

adn bashing metal cause they cant cant their close minded heads out of the frikken seventies.

Assuming you meant "can't get their closed minded heads", then I have this to say. Music's age means nothing. Accusing someone of being 'stuck in the 70s' is merely accusing them of enjoying primarily - maybe even exclusively - bands from one particular genre. Can I then accuse people of being stuck in the post-rock aisle?

^^ Perfect. The original premise is false. Tech/extreme is not choking up any website. So to create good discussion as you suggest, the thread could have even been called "Is tech/extreme prog?" or something like that. Then you would've had mostly only good answers... (a few "what the hell do you thin you are" would have appeared of course)... but with an incendiary title as "Tired of extreme/tech choking up the site?" you can expect replies of any kind....

The T wrote: ^^ Perfect. The original premise is false. Tech/extreme is not choking up any website. So to create good discussion as you suggest, the thread could have even been called "Is tech/extreme prog?" or something like that. Then you would've had mostly only good answers... (a few "what the hell do you thin you are" would have appeared of course)... but with an incendiary title as "Tired of extreme/tech choking up the site?" you can expect replies of any kind....   Because by saying "you tired of X" you're in a way implying YOU are tired. The thread thus looks more like a way to vent frustration and to encourage others to do so, which only calls for the use of negative energies. Why don't say, just simply, "do you think tech/extreme is prog?". Even though the final answer is given (that genre is here... to stay...) a musical discussion would follow... you ask for positive arguments, positive reactions, positive in the sense that they express something instead of appealing to the probable frustration of others.... The thread is created in a negative way, to fuel negative feelings (not negative as in bad but as in negative, don't add anything, substract. Act out of repulsion, not out of reasoning.   So I'm only answering and providing evidence about your initial post and the title of this thread. If people hate the genre, why should I care? Tastes are tastes.... But, again, the spirit that I feel fueled the creation fo this thread forces me to say tech/extreme is not choking up any site...

when over 1500 people visit the Poll I call that a very good discussion and so far very civil ...  champagne anybody ? 

Edited by darqDean - June 23 2008 at 11:01

Ian, I wasn't accusing you of being stuck in the post-rock aisle. I think you may have read my post wrong. I am not making this a personal debate. And, lest we escalate further, I am not going to counter your "arguments". I'm not even going to restate the argument(s) you apparently misinterpreted because I think I articulated them fine the first time.