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lazland 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13699
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 Posted: October 09 2011 at 14:46 |
 Andyman1125 wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
I mean, Haken made the 32nd best prog album of all time, better than Mars Volta or PT (from the more representative modern bands)? |
Whoah, I don't know what happened but there's no Haken album in the top 100 anymore. I guess it goes to show the corrective prowess of the algorithm. One negative review and all that unanimity in hype was balanced.
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It was a similar case when Snowtorch shot up to like #20 or something when it came out because of immediate fanboyship, same with Passion (I think that was #30), but it always seems to weed itself out as more and more people rate the album. |
Yep. To be fair to the great man himself, Phideaux did comment at the time on the site that, no matter how (rightly IMO) proud he was of the album, it most certainly did not belong at those exalted heights, and it did correct itself fairly quickly.
I think both Snowtorch & Passion are great albums. But top 30? No, and the algorithm is working well here.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: June 04 2010
Location: Terria
Status: Offline
Points: 13298
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Posted: October 09 2011 at 15:07 |
lazland wrote:
Andyman1125 wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
I mean, Haken made the 32nd best prog album of all time, better than Mars Volta or PT (from the more representative modern bands)? |
Whoah, I don't know what happened but there's no Haken album in the top 100 anymore. I guess it goes to show the corrective prowess of the algorithm. One negative review and all that unanimity in hype was balanced.
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It was a similar case when Snowtorch shot up to like #20 or something when it came out because of immediate fanboyship, same with Passion (I think that was #30), but it always seems to weed itself out as more and more people rate the album. |
Yep. To be fair to the great man himself, Phideaux did comment at the time on the site that, no matter how (rightly IMO) proud he was of the album, it most certainly did not belong at those exalted heights, and it did correct itself fairly quickly.
I think both Snowtorch & Passion are great albums. But top 30? No, and the algorithm is working well here. |
My point exactly. I think Snowtorch is easily one of the best of the year, but it's certainly not ItCotCK's rival in terms of masterpiece-hood.
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seventhsojourn
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 11 2009
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 4006
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Posted: October 10 2011 at 05:19 |
@Alex - many thanks for your reassurance, much appreciated. 
As far as prog not getting a look in elsewhere... got me to to thinking about other lists from back in the day. Some of the other chaps will no doubt remember the NME Writers' top 100 lists. The 1974 list came as a centre spread with small pictures of all the album covers, except it was really the Writers' top 99 as they got readers to write in with nominations for the 100th spot. The Moody Blues didn't get a look in, for example... not even for the 100th position as their readers' votes were spread across their core 7 albums. Quicksilver Messenger Service Happy Trails came close, and I pretty soon bought that album as a result of seeing it nominated. Tubular Bells actually got the readers' vote for #100.
The point for the debate here is that there is very little of what I would call classsic prog on the list. Sure, a lot of the albums are listed here in PA (Zappa, Who, Beatles, Doors etc etc) but apart from Pink Floyd's Piper #21 and DSotM #92, Crimson ItCotCK #37, Tull Stand Up #50, The Yes Album #73... not so much ''classic'' prog. I stopped reading the NME around 1982 (major crossroads in my life, my family and career took priority, no money for albums, no time for gigs and all that malarky) so I don't remember the NME lists from the years 1985 and 1993, but thanks to the internet I can now compare them all.
Interesting to see from the 3 different lists - Forever Changes by Love goes from #52 (1974) to #14 (1985) and stays in the top 20 in 1993. Trout Mask Replica is #43 (1974) and #42 (1985), but is nowhere to be seen in 1993 (although Clear Spot is there instead.) I wonder how the PA top 100 would look if members got to vote rather than rate albums but then again that would be a whole mess of work and not really practical... just thinking aloud. The obvious things about those NME lists is that there is little prog and they are very narrow with the focus strictly on UK and US artists. Anyway, in the off chance that other members might be interested here are links to those lists, you might just find something you like:
EDIT: sorry, I seem to be having trouble adding links. A similar thing happened last night when I tried posting vids in the Italian den. Any suggestions? Thanks.
Edited by seventhsojourn - October 10 2011 at 05:29
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zwordser
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2008
Location: Southwest US
Status: Offline
Points: 1392
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Posted: November 04 2011 at 11:44 |
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I've watched the list for a couple years now, and find it interesting how it continually evolves. The bottom 50 (of the top 100) seems to be constantly changing. The top 50 is a little more stable, though maybe one or two albums break into it every week. I agree that an album has to "stand the test of time" to be considered, or rated among the very top of the thousands of albums that are out there. I'd guess that in a few more years, you may start to see more albums from the 80's, 90's or 2000's break into the top 20 and stick there (assuming that the list is still there in a few years).
I also agree that, even if it may be "flawed" (as many posts seemed to suggest) the list is a VERY useful tool for a guide to collecting/sampling music. I generally accept the idea that the best rated albums are the ones I want to look into for sampling and/or collecting first; I start with what's on the list, then if I really like a band, I may collect more of their albums that aren't on the list.
Lately I've been looking more closely at the top 200. Seems to me that anything you find in the 100-200 range is going to be some of the best prog out there, and it's also where you'll find much of the best newer music.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:24 |
Andyman1125 wrote:
lazland wrote:
Andyman1125 wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
I mean, Haken made the 32nd best prog album of all time, better than Mars Volta or PT (from the more representative modern bands)? |
Whoah, I don't know what happened but there's no Haken album in the top 100 anymore. I guess it goes to show the corrective prowess of the algorithm. One negative review and all that unanimity in hype was balanced.
|
It was a similar case when Snowtorch shot up to like #20 or something when it came out because of immediate fanboyship, same with Passion (I think that was #30), but it always seems to weed itself out as more and more people rate the album. |
Yep. To be fair to the great man himself, Phideaux did comment at the time on the site that, no matter how (rightly IMO) proud he was of the album, it most certainly did not belong at those exalted heights, and it did correct itself fairly quickly.
I think both Snowtorch & Passion are great albums. But top 30? No, and the algorithm is working well here. |
My point exactly. I think Snowtorch is easily one of the best of the year, but it's certainly not ItCotCK's rival in terms of masterpiece-hood. |
Except both the albums mentioned aren't masterpieces.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:48 |
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What does "schewed" mean? Is it a Jewish phrase?
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: November 04 2011 at 12:50 |
Snow Dog wrote:
What does "schewed" mean? Is it a Jewish phrase? |
Schewed Schmewed. Now there's a Jewish phrase for you.
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