70s to Early 80s Prog Metal? |
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15260 |
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Ah, i totally missed this. Legend is a band of mysteries. Part prog, part NWOBHM. I guess they would technically be the closest thing to prog metal except on thing. They didn't exactly mix the two styles. They just played some prog songs and some metal songs so i dunno. If they would've stuck around they coulda beat Watchtower to the game.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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While I do think most of what came out in the 70's was proto metal or hard rock there was some true heavy metal in my opinion such as Black Sabbath, Judas Priest and Motorhead and maybe also Scorpions, Budgie, UFO and Thin Lizzy depending on your definition. Also, the NY based band Riot released actual heavy metal albums before the end of the 70's as did a few others. Most NWOBHM albums were released in 80 or later though.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Absolutely. In particular I would say By Tor and the Snowdog,Necromancer, 2112 suite, A farewell to Kings(song), Hemispheres(side long track) and maybe Jacob's Ladder, Natural Science and Camera Eye. The shorter tracks not so much except YYZ.
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Dellinger
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I don't know about bands, but Machine Messiah Prog Metal in my head.
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verslibre
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Still sounds like proto-prog metal. Rising and LLRnR don't sound like Purple.
That's why I didn't mention them.
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cstack3
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Thanks, SP, that was excellent! I was even thinking about Lucifer's Friend before I saw your list!
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15260 |
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Yeah, i'm not sure where hard rock officially becomes metal. I guess i would call Black Sabbath early metal. 70s Judas Priest, Scorpions, Motorhead are probably on the metal side of the equation. Thin Lizzy seems hard rock to me. I guess the dividing line in the late 70s is the attitude and use of guitar soloing. There's no clear answer IMHO
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cstack3
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As a practicing guitarist for the past, oh, 50+ years, I've always differentiated Hard Rock from Metal in these terms: a) Hard Rock seems to be much more blues-based, whereas Metal, although having some roots in blues scales, branches out into other scales and classical music modes. Compare Led Zeppelin to Black Sabbath for example. Jimmy Page has said that Led Zep was hard rock, not heavy metal, and I use this as my baseline. b) Metal uses much more robust guitar distortion, often with fuzz-tone effects vs. hard rock, which employs the sweeter-sound overdriven valve amp sound. Bob Fripp's use of fuzz-tone is classic metal! c) Hard Rock tends to be a bit more romantic in lyrics, whereas Metal is more violent/apocalyptic/grounded in dark imagery. Other than that, many bands have crossed over a bit...however, I don't generally find much true overlap between true hard-rock bands and heavy metal actors. I love both!
Edited by cstack3 - October 09 2019 at 22:18 |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18436 |
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I consider some Led Zeppelin songs especially "dazed and confused" and "communication breakdown"(and maybe a few others) to be true metal but I agree that for the most part they were hard rock. You could say the same about Queen who had some metal songs but over all were probably closer to hard rock. Black Sabbath were probably the first true metal band. Also, I'm a big advocate of the term proto metal. I think there was some grey area with some of the earlier bands as far as being hard rock vs metal so I prefer to use the term proto metal(or even heavy rock). The aforementioned Led Zeppelin would qualify but also Deep Purple, Uriah Heep and others.
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15260 |
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Not a bad distinction. Still though there are plenty of bands that crossed over especially in the 70s. I love both as well. For example check out what RYM considers top heavy metal albums for the 70s. Almost every one is double tagged as hard rock, some glam rock and some even prog |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
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I think another element which marked the departure of Heavy Metal from Hard Rock was speed. Of course not in all the songs, but in average, Heavy Metal has faster guitar licks and frequently double kick-drum rhythm bases.
That's why Queen's song Stone Cold Crazy is frequently cited as proto-Metal, because it was very fast. Judas Priest is also a good example, with many of their songs with a faster tempo than what Purple or Rainbow had been doing until then. Sabbath were a bit in between.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28270 |
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Deep Purple often played at break neck speed though. Speed King and Fireball being obvious examples. Purple were always a bit of a strange one because of Jon Lord. Stuff like Child In Time and the live version of Space Truckin' was out and out prog. Jon Lord could do everything Keith Emerson could do but just didn't want to most of the time! |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
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Yes I agree
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tribalfusions
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A lot of good mentions here and. I have to chime in on the discussion about Rainbow with Dio. For me that's the missing link with way more keyboard and non-pentatonic riffing (quite different from Purple) and it influenced so many prog metal and power metal bands. Those early Rainbow albums are some of my favorite music Stargazer, Tarot Woman, Gates of Babylon or even the delicate Rainbow Eyes and Temple of the King. Along with Uli Jon Roth's playing in the Scorpions and his early Electric Sun work, early Michael Schenker Group, Rush and Priest on Sad Wings of Destiny you have a lot of the elements of prog metal to which of course we can add all the other prog and metal classics we all know as well as some fusion like Mahavishnu, Holdsworth and Al Di Meola etc which impacted guitarists in particular across many genres.
Edited by tribalfusions - November 03 2019 at 13:30 |
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verslibre
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Great post. As you no doubt saw, my "Exhibit A" is Rainbow's Rising.
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tribalfusions
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Thanks and yes I did indeed see your post and thoroughly agree. I'd also point to cover versions of Dio era Rainbow from Sons of Apollo and Dream Theater. By the way, have you heard the recent Swedish band Avatarium? They have a fabullous female singer and capture some of that early Rainbow vibe as well.
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