Why dont many girls like prog?

Blacksword wrote: Some women obviously do like prog, but I think it's fair to say more men like it than women. It's not sexist or unreasonable to make that observation. It just is what it is.

chopper wrote: Blacksword wrote: Some women obviously do like prog, but I think it's fair to say more men like it than women. It's not sexist or unreasonable to make that observation. It just is what it is.    That explains why the queue for the men's toilet at last weekend's Wishbone Ash concert was much longer than the queue for the ladies.

Indeed, and if you went to see Take That the queue for the ladies would be snaking around the perimiter of the arena, where as the mens would be tumbleweed country..

Blacksword wrote: Some women obviously do like prog, but I think it's fair to say more men like it than women. It's not sexist or unreasonable to make that observation. It just is what it is. Why do more women than men like One Direction? Women prefer dancing to men, and are generally better at it. Most women I know prefer songs about human experiences, not science fiction, wizards or out of body experiences. I don't know why, they just do.

Ok - I honestly find it kind of hilarious that *yet another* one of my interests has been deemed Boy Stuff. I mean, I'm used to it by now given I grew up being into space Lego and Star Wars and video games and whatnot; by the time I got to college (majoring in electrical engineering) I was so accustomed to being surrounded by dudes that encountering another female in my chosen territory often actively weirded me out.

That said...I think all this discussion of "why aren't more women into prog" is essentially the same conversation that happens when people start speculating on why more women aren't STEM majors / engineers/ etc. And the answer is the same: "it's complicated". Honestly, I think a lot of it is down to a feedback loop: way back in the day, before birth control and such, women were often relegated to a life of baby-having and domestic duties from a fairly young age. Now, even in first-world situations where we have more of a choice regarding such things, and where there is generally a built-in egalitarian expectation surrounding domestic labor proliferated throughout mainstream culture, little kids still get bombarded from all sides with expectations of gender-role performance. Even if it isn't overt or shoved down throats, so to speak, most children pick up and absorb a ton of ideas from their society and family groups, and are compelled, consciously or not, to behave accordingly. There *may* be a biological component to some of this, but I would assert it is minuscule compared to social feedback loops. I mean i have literally seen people try to claim that girls are drawn to pink because cave-women used to forage for red berries, which is just absurd, especially considering until around the 1930s or thereabouts, blue was considered a girl color and pink was for boys.

But in any event - I think that the women in modern first-world countries who end up getting into prog are going to be those who have, by virtue of early experiences, family environment, and possibly neurological makeup, managed to like what they like regardless of what the mainstream culture expects of girls. In my case I had a father who was into prog, plus I am on the autism spectrum, so maybe those things contributed. I never really felt beholden to acting like a "girl", Iat least in the sense of gravitation toward or away from particular interests based on gender role stuff.

Big Ears wrote: There was a girl on this site, called threefates, who was a big ELP fan. I am not sure what happened to her, but one of the PA stalwarts might know.  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=498

There's been numerous female members of this forum. In remember Threefates quite well. I think she used to actually know ELP.

Kepler62 wrote: Maybe she just gave up like I'm about to. I mean 12 pages of this nonsense?

The T wrote: Why do so few men run countries in Europe

because out of 28 member states there are 5 female presidents and 4 female prime ministers which clearly indicate that either pesky arithmetic or character references from your guy are the culprit


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 08 2017 at 08:23

The T wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: The T wrote: Why do so few men run countries in Europe  because out of 28 member states there are 5 female presidents and 4 female prime ministers which clearly indicate that either pesky arithmetic or character references from your guy are the culprit My post was rubbish, in the spirit of this thread  Having said that, look at your old empire, or the old Reich, currently run by women. That should give wart-swamped misogynists headaches even though, dammit,  women don't like Jon Anderson's nonsense in the same rates as men.

There's been a lot of rubbish posted in the thread but that's like blaming the paint factory for the graffiti. i think the topic thought provoking and worthwhile but have no idea how the historical British Empire equates to an 'old reich run by women'. Jon Anderson might actually make more sense than you do?

CorwinA wrote: Ok - I honestly find it kind of hilarious that *yet another* one of my interests has been deemed Boy Stuff. I mean, I'm used to it by now given I grew up being into space Lego and Star Wars and video games and whatnot; by the time I got to college (majoring in electrical engineering) I was so accustomed to being surrounded by dudes that encountering another female in my chosen territory often actively weirded me out.  That said...I think all this discussion of "why aren't more women into prog" is essentially the same conversation that happens when people start speculating on why more women aren't STEM majors / engineers/ etc. And the answer is the same: "it's complicated". Honestly, I think a lot of it is down to a feedback loop: way back in the day, before birth control and such, women were often relegated to a life of baby-having and domestic duties from a fairly young age. Now, even in first-world situations where we have more of a choice regarding such things, and where there is generally a built-in egalitarian expectation surrounding domestic labor proliferated throughout mainstream culture, little kids still get bombarded from all sides with expectations of gender-role performance. Even if it isn't overt or shoved down throats, so to speak, most children pick up and absorb a ton of ideas from their society and family groups, and are compelled, consciously or not, to behave accordingly. There *may* be a biological component to some of this, but I would assert it is minuscule compared to social feedback loops. I mean i have literally seen people try to claim that girls are drawn to pink because cave-women used to forage for red berries, which is just absurd, especially considering until around the 1930s or thereabouts, blue was considered a girl color and pink was for boys.  But in any event - I think that the women in modern first-world countries who end up getting into prog are going to be those who have, by virtue of early experiences, family environment, and possibly neurological makeup, managed to like what they like regardless of what the mainstream culture expects of girls. In my case I had a father who was into prog, plus I am on the autism spectrum, so maybe those things contributed. I never really felt beholden to acting like a "girl", Iat least in the sense of gravitation toward or away from particular interests based on gender role stuff.

Yes, didn't mention it specifically because she is the engineer cousin I mentioned a few lines before that.