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The Mystical 
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Joined: May 20 2012
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 Topic: Vinyl sleeves
Posted: December 03 2013 at 02:44 |
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I am a vinyl collector, and recently I have taken to storing my vinyls with the opening of the plastic protective sleeves facing upward. Is this wrong?
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I am currently digging:
Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz!
Please drop me a message with album suggestions.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 04:03 |
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Dude !! That's how I used to keep my LP's, but now they are kept with the sleeves opening at the album opening. There is nothing wrong with any way you desire to store your LP's - the only thing wrong is when you don't keep your albums in protective sleeves. It always irks me when I see ring-worn LP's at fairs......
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 12:48 |
Agree.....All my vinyl is in clear plastic covers. I keep about 50 albums in two boxes close to my setup in constant rotation. Those are kept with the opening at the album opening as they flip to you. The rest of my collection are on book shelves and the opening faces up so its easier to pull them out and you don't leave the sleeve behind.... Protect that cover.....they will be worth millions of $$!!  |
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Dean
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 13:37 |
Two things are going to damage your precious album sleeve - sunlight and damp. As long as you're protecting them from both of those it does not matter which way round you put them into a plastic bag. (assuming everyone is already orienting the inner sleeve to prevent the ingress of dust that is). I dislike plastic sleeves, they generate static and do not last very long before they become brittle and split - you'd a thought by now some bright spark would have come up with a better method of storing vinyl, especially gatefold covers that barely squeeze into a single-pocket plastic sleeve without damaging either the sleeve or the cover.
I also dislike having to buy anti-static inner selves - 60 years of album production and Record companies still sell the damn things with hard-card inner sleeves.
And while I'm on a rant - Gong 2032 ... what a piece of utter crap that "gatefold" sleeve is, it may look very pretty, but it's badly made.
grr!
As much as I like vinyl surely it is not beyond the wit of man to devise a better means of packaging them. I'd even tolerate a 12" digipak or a suitable acrylic jewel case if they could do it properly, for the money we're paying for these it's about time the quality improved, especially if we're to treat them as "collector's items".... actually, to hell with that, I buy them to play them not to keep for my daughter to sell when I'm dead, but I'd really like the sleeve to be considerably harder wearing and less damaging to the vinyl surface than they currently are.
pah!
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silverpot
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 14:58 |
I have a friend who is a professional archivist and her advice is to never store items made of paper in a plastic sleeve. The plastic kind of sucks up the text or the image from the paper and makes it stick to the plastic. Don't know if you understand what I mean, it's hard to explain. 
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 16:10 |
For my actual LP disc I am in transition period of swapping all and I use Quality Record Pressing product. It uses acid free inner paper, a rice paper, and the outer is anti-static poly....real nice and work well.
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progbethyname
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 16:26 |
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^^^ thank you guys. This is interesting cause I was wondering about proper packaging with vinyl, but as Dean said dampness can cause massive warping. Also. I imagine 'rice paper' may be too flimsy , no?
Anyway. I'm a digital man so what do I know.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 16:39 |
 progbethyname wrote:
^^^ thank you guys. This is interesting cause I was wondering about proper packaging with vinyl, but as Dean said dampness can cause massive warping. Also. I imagine 'rice paper' may be too flimsy , no?
Anyway. I'm a digital man so what do I know. |
Its not only rice paper, its lined with poly on the outside. Only the vinyl touches the rice paper, they are very sturdy.....You can just Google the brand name for more details if you like.
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Dean
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 17:04 |
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It would be much better if nothing touched the vinyl surface at all.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 17:15 |
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Oh, are we talking of the actual sleeve (be it polythene or paper) the LP slips into, or the protective cover of the LP package ?? I don't mind the paper inlays to house the vinyl, but the outer protective sleeve, housing the complete package, should preferably be of an acid free composition. I have these thick, slightly cloudy soft plastics that are just perfect. I have found that these ultra clear, thick vinyl type composition (like an inflatable toy material) ends up spoiling the actual LP inside over time.
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 03 2013 at 17:35 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
Oh, are we talking of the actual sleeve (be it polythene or paper) the LP slips into, or the protective cover of the LP package ?? I don't mind the paper inlays to house the vinyl, but the outer protective sleeve, housing the complete package, should preferably be of an acid free composition. I have these thick, slightly cloudy soft plastics that are just perfect. I have found that these ultra clear, thick vinyl type composition (like an inflatable toy material) ends up spoiling the actual LP inside over time. |
I think the thread morphed into both....inner and outer sleeves. I get my outer sleeves from SleeveCity.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: December 05 2013 at 16:13 |
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My sister's LP collection has been crammed tightly into crates, she hasn't listened to them for years - I looked at them and noticed that most of the vinyl has this rippled clouding all over them - it doesn't effect the sound too much, but it cannot be removed no matter what I do. I put this down to the clear PVC outer sleeves more so than the actual bag the LP slips into. BTW, she has lots of Wakeman, Yes, Queen, Genesis, ELP and lots of 80's New Wave stuff !! Shame to see her collection deteriorating like this.
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Dean
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Posted: December 05 2013 at 17:37 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
My sister's LP collection has been crammed tightly into crates, she hasn't listened to them for years - I looked at them and noticed that most of the vinyl has this rippled clouding all over them - it doesn't effect the sound too much, but it cannot be removed no matter what I do. I put this down to the clear PVC outer sleeves more so than the actual bag the LP slips into. BTW, she has lots of Wakeman, Yes, Queen, Genesis, ELP and lots of 80's New Wave stuff !! Shame to see her collection deteriorating like this. |
It's caused by outgassing from the PVC - ironically not the PVC sleeve but from the vinyl record itself (vinyl is polyvinyl chloride and by volume contains far more PVC than the protective sleeve so logically outgases more harmful gases than the sleeve does), the sleeve only serves to exacerbate the problem by keeping the gas confined rather than allow it to dissipate. The wavy/cloudy pattern is a reaction of these gases with the paper inner sleeve and/or the Clarifoil™ liner, rice paper is no protection here as it too is not inert. All in all (album, inner sleeve, outer sleeve and plastic bag), is a pretty horrendous chemistry set of chlorine, phthalates (butyl benzyl phthalate), lignin, sulphur and other noxious acids and alkalines in close proximity to each other in a semi-sealed plastic bag, stored in close proximity to 100s of other 12x12 outgassing chemical factories, no doubt in a confined space with little air circulation and ventilation.
Dah! Pernickety facts and dull boring science, no one ever listens to me so don't let the fact that vinyl happily attacks itself spoil your enjoyment.
Edited by Dean - December 05 2013 at 17:38
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 05 2013 at 19:37 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
My sister's LP collection has been crammed tightly into crates, she hasn't listened to them for years - I looked at them and noticed that most of the vinyl has this rippled clouding all over them - it doesn't effect the sound too much, but it cannot be removed no matter what I do. I put this down to the clear PVC outer sleeves more so than the actual bag the LP slips into. BTW, she has lots of Wakeman, Yes, Queen, Genesis, ELP and lots of 80's New Wave stuff !! Shame to see her collection deteriorating like this. |
Strange....I have never noticed anything like you describe on any of my old vinyl. I even have some of my father and uncle's old-old 50-60's vinyl and I don't see anything like that. The only damage some of the collection has is water stains, marks on the covers. Several yrs ago I wiped them all with a light solution of bleach/water to hopefully kill any mold spores...I guess it worked, nothing more has happened, the actual vinyl is in good shape. I suppose different conditions will cause more or less harm to vinyl.....most of my life I have lived in the south and eastern US where we see very humid summers. Now living in Seattle there is little humidity in the summer months.....good for things that are affected by weather conditions normally.
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: December 13 2013 at 20:35 |
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Yes - mildew can be a problem - I have quite a few records where the inner-sleeves are marred with yellow spots. Some even inside various gatefolds. One album I picked up many years back was a copy of Tangerine Dream's 'Pergamon' (on caroline records - 1986 release I think) - there was friggin' green penicillin growing on the bottom corner of the spine !! I cleaned it off, still a frad discoloured, but saved from further deterioration.
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 14 2013 at 01:03 |
That is pretty severe.....I picked up about 4 boxes of albums from a retired army guy who is now in a nursing home. He kept the boxes in his basement, albums he did not play anymore. Half of them were covered with water damage and some mold, very humid in his basement. Some covers are ruined but all the vinyl is in very good shape....Also about 200 45rpm singles stored in booklets. None of this music is what I listen to (American easy listening pop, country and some classical). I was able to clean and remove mold with bleach wipes.....This is the worst I have seen but considering where he kept them I am not surprised.
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Chris S
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Posted: December 14 2013 at 02:42 |
Haha I love this thread. I just need to buy some new plastic sleeves for my vinyl. They have done an excellent job all these years with the opening on top so the vinyl ' entrance' is sealed off. Need to go into the local store and replenish the sleeves. For the record  , my albums have survived moving to seven continents ( erm some back and forth....long story) including the original importations and they are still all in excellent condition. I am referring to the covers and sleeves at the moment/. The best protection is lack of light and keep dry. I have just recently inherited my late grandfather's vinyl including 78's from the 30/40/50/60's and I cant wait to spin a few, plenty of jazz!
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: December 14 2013 at 14:54 |
Catcher10 wrote:
That is pretty severe.....I picked up about 4 boxes of albums from a retired army guy who is now in a nursing home. He kept the boxes in his basement, albums he did not play anymore. Half of them were covered with water damage and some mold, very humid in his basement.Some covers are ruined but all the vinyl is in very good shape....Also about 200 45rpm singles stored in booklets. None of this music is what I listen to (American easy listening pop, country and some classical). I was able to clean and remove mold with bleach wipes.....This is the worst I have seen but considering where he kept them I am not surprised. |
Bleach wipes on the actual LP - coz once a cover is ruined with spots, I don't think it can be cleaned ?? (Would be nice to clean off some toning from the covers/inners)
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Daysbetween
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Posted: December 14 2013 at 15:37 |
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I have about 1500 vinyls and keep them all in anti-static inners and soft thick plastic outers. I have been collecting since the very late 60's and always have the opening at the top to keep out dust. The plastic outers do deteriorate over time but are fairly cheap and I just replace them. Never had any problems with outgassing thankfully. Like others have said keep them out of direct sunlight and in a dry atmosphere. Biggest problem I have encountered is warping with records left in warm sun or not stored upright which is a mistake I made when I was a youngster and never gave such matters a thought.
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Catcher10
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Posted: December 14 2013 at 16:55 |
Chris S wrote:
Haha I love this thread. I just need to buy some new plastic sleeves for my vinyl. They have done an excellent job all these years with the opening on top so the vinyl ' entrance' is sealed off. Need to go into the local store and replenish the sleeves. For the record, my albums have survived moving to seven continents ( erm some back and forth....long story) including the original importations and they are still all in excellent condition. I am referring to the covers and sleeves at the moment/. The best protection is lack of light and keep dry. I have just recently inherited my late grandfather's vinyl including 78's from the 30/40/50/60's and I cant wait to spin a few, plenty of jazz!
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Dude!! Are you kidding me!!!!! Would be cool if you could post some pics or titles/catalog numbers of whatcha got...Would be very interesting reading for sure. Anything I have purchased as a young lad, I think some of my first vinyl purchase was in '72-73ish (I was 9-10) I still have and has always been protected from sun. It has been in a outer sleeve for probably the last 30yrs when I realized I needed to seriously do this. Of course everything now is protected...the original shrink wrapping is bad for vinyl. And also hearing your impressions of that good ole jazz! Nice inheritance, one that keeps giving and giving.....
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Vinyl sleeves
