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JediJoker7169 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 05 2009 Location: West Coast, NA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
 Topic: Dire Straits: Prog-Related? YES.Posted: May 07 2009 at 22:28 |
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See older/closed thread here: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40503&KW=Dire+Straits&PID=2592133#2592133.
How is Dire Straits NOT Prog-Related? In my iTunes playlist of "Favorite Progressive Rock" (a playlist of studio recordings, which admittedly includes a lot of Prog-Related stuff), out of 639 songs (and growing), 14 are Dire Straits songs. From a band that only made 6 studio albums and a guy who listens to lots of Progressive Rock, that's saying something. Furthermore, I cite the inclusion of Dire Straits in a prominent Progressive Rock radio show: (San Francisco Bay Area's 98.5 KFOX's) Greg Stone's "Stone Trek" (see here: http://www.till.com/BayProg/radio.html). Stone is a true veteran DJ and longtime Prog fan. On his old page on the KFOX site (he was a victim of the recent Clear Channel layoffs), he had a picture of himself and David Gilmour from an interview, just in case you have doubts about his legitimacy. So why are they not included? In the previous thread, the naysayers mostly said (and I quote) things such as: - "... Dire Straits is one [of] those bands who, although not quite prog, definitely ventured into some amazing sonic territory." - "Dire Straits, while one of the more unique blues bands, does not qualify even for [Prog-Related, in my opinion]. The best argument for inclusion could come from either Love Over Gold or the live album Alchemy." - "They are a great adventurous rock band with varied influences, but I don't think they should be on the site...." - "Yes, for 80's standards[, Dire Straits was] Prog... But for Prog standards... Well... Well... Well[, was] only a very good band!!!" - "They have their proggy moments (Telegraph Road for example) but I don't think they should be included." Tenuous arguments at best. I think the best argument for inclusion comes from having "proggy moments;" does that alone not qualify for inclusion as Prog-Related? If not, then what does "Prog-Related" really mean? Just watered-down Prog? Here are the Dire Straits songs in my "Favorite Progressive Rock" playlist: - "Once Upon A Time in the West" - "Brothers In Arms" - "News" - "You and Your Friend" - "Love Over Gold" - "The Man's Too Strong" - "Ride Across The River" - "Single Handed Sailor" --> "Follow Me Home" - "Money For Nothing" (a difficult decision, but I finally decided it was worthy) - "Planet of New Orleans" (which received frequent airplay on Stone Trek) - "Private Investigations" - "Iron Hand" - "On Every Street" All of the songs listed above are "proggy" or have their "proggy moments." A quick listen will confirm that. It is also true, of course, that they have their non-Prog moments, and maybe there are more of those than not. But isn't that true for some other Prog-Related bands, such as Styx? On their first album alone, they have one real Prog song ("Movement for the Common Man"), but mostly non-Prog ones (the rest of the album, except for maybe "What Has Come Between Us"). So what makes Dire Straits so different? I challenge someone to make a cohesive and specific argument against Dire Straits' inclusion as a Prog-Related band.
Edited by JediJoker7169 - May 08 2009 at 00:57 |
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ProgShine
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 04 2005 Location: Kalisz, Poland Status: Offline Points: 1256 |
Posted: May 07 2009 at 22:42 |
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The Love Over Gold album, and Making Movies had 90% from prog related there, and there's a lot more on the other albuns, I think they should be here too, as I always say, there's a lot of other bands here that had almost nothing with prog and still there
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https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008 Location: Declined Status: Offline Points: 16715 |
Posted: May 07 2009 at 23:46 |
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Because we can't include every band that had a few prog-esque moments. If we did, we'd already have Boston here for that annoying Long Time song. So where do we draw the line? I have no idea, I don't really pay attention, but it's probably not going to happen because the consensus is that they fall outside of our admittedly nebulous criteria. And I philosophically think Prog Related does not need to be expanded at all, but that's not really on-topic.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Pekka
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 03 2006 Location: Espoo, Finland Status: Offline Points: 6442 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 00:15 |
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They've certainly got some prog in them so they could easily be added, but I have no ambitions about it. I hear there's tons of actual prog bands waiting for addition so perhaps it's not necessary to add any related things in the queue.
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JediJoker7169
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 05 2009 Location: West Coast, NA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 00:37 |
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Now there's an argument I can appreciate. But what if someone offered to do all the gruntwork (release research, biography, artwork, etc.)? I would be more than willing to look into it over the summer. I just feel kinda strongly about Dire Straits deserving to be recognized.
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:02 |
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I big yes to add Dire Straits to prog related
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4625 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:27 |
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Maybe I have just heard all the wrong songs, but to me this sounds ridiculous. Money For Nothing, Sultans of Swing, Julia, Brothers in Arms, absolutely zero prog in any of those.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66264 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:30 |
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I believe that two key things have been hit upon with this post and its quoted post. The true goal of this site is to add prog bands, not prog-related bands. There are hundreds, if not thousands of bands that are related to prog and could be added to prog related. But there are also hundreds, if not thousands of bands that still need to be evaluated and added to prog categories. I believe that there is a pretty good general consensus that the site will benefit most from its collaborators concentrating on prog bands versus prog related bands.
A band like Dire Straits is probably as deserving for inclusion in prog related as other bands that are already included as well as others that are not included. Their inclusion would most likely to occur during a period of time when a collaborator or genre team that supports their inclusion are at a point where they are reasonably caught up with their current slate of evaluations and additions, and they are willing to take the time to champion them to the site administrators for their decision of whether or not to include the band in prog related. Even then though, the best way for inclusion is for the person who is suggesting their inclusion to be willing to follow up by writing a biography and addition the band's albums once they have been approved for inclusion.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66264 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:31 |
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You are correct. You have not heard the right songs yet.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:41 |
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No ABB, then no Dire Straits.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66264 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:48 |
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What does or doesn't happen with ABB has absolutely zero relation with might or might not happen with Dire Straits.
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 782 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 11:35 |
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What's amazing, JediJoker, is you haven't included 'Telegraph Road', the most proggy thing they ever did.
Here's my argument against their inclusion (and bands like them). Dire Straits is world-renowned not for their progressive rock, but for their stripped-down, guitar-centric classic rock. They were the foremost rock revival band in the world in the early 80s dominated by post-punk and new wave. Like thousands of bands, their music was influenced by prog, and some of what they did was arranged with a sound similar to the classic British symphonic prog era. But at heart these songs, despite their increasingly elaborate arrangements (culminating in the fabulous 'Love over Gold'), are simple rock songs. I love Dire Straits, and I acknowledge the influence prog rock had on their music, but they are not primarily a prog rock band. They are a classic rock band with prog influences in their song arrangements. In my opinion that is not enough to see them included here, even under prog-related. Though anyone with even the slightest interest in prog ought to listen to 'Telegraph Road'. |
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 16913 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 11:39 |
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Seconded.
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4625 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 11:41 |
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Well what's a good album then? Or is it just a smattering of PR songs here and there? |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66264 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 11:52 |
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 11:53 |
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ABB belongs much more so before Dire Straits.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66264 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 12:06 |
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In your opinion, that might be but it still has no bearing on any decision regarding either band. I suspect it'll be a really cold day before either band is included but I'm sure that like with any other controversial bands, progressively speaking, arguments can be made for and against until the cows come home and more people will be unhappy than happy with the final decision.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 12:16 |
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Of course it is my opinion. And that scenario already occurs. So what's one more? Oh yah, admin aggravation. So that being said. I suspect no DIre Straits.
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rosenbach
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2009 Location: Mexico City Status: Offline Points: 311 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 15:36 |
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Great band, but not prog at all to my ears. Sometimes i think people try to relate a favourite band to prog for an unknown reason to me.
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JediJoker7169
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 05 2009 Location: West Coast, NA Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Posted: May 08 2009 at 17:30 |
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True that. But I think in this case, there's enough substance that it's not "clutching at straws" (if you'll excuse the pun). I do now, however, have a greater appreciation for why the band is not yet included in the Archives. The previous thread contained no explanation of the real reason why they weren't there, but this one certainly does. I think I've achieved my goal, or at least part of it. Oh, and as to why I don't have "Telegraph Road" in my playlist: it's just not one of my favorites. All of the other songs that are there, though, do relate.
Edited by JediJoker7169 - May 08 2009 at 17:32 |
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Dire Straits: Prog-Related? YES.
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JediJoker7169 wrote: