New Prog bands still influenced by the 'Big Five?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=100041
Printed Date: November 12 2024 at 23:27
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: New Prog bands still influenced by the 'Big Five?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: New Prog bands still influenced by the 'Big Five?
Date Posted: October 20 2014 at 09:05
|
With many new Prog bands like Haken, Karnavool, Moon Safari, The Pineapple Thief and TesseracT turning up lately with members of very young age (at least to me!), barely in their twenties, do you think the 'Big Five' like Genesis (along with their Neo clones), ELP, Pink Floyd, Yes and King Crimson hold heavy influence over their music? Or are other music groups like Radiohead, and other genres like Metal Core taking over that role? And what of former Doom metal goups like Anathama and Opeth? Do you feel they that they are filtering the 'Big Five' in their current sound, or treading their own paths with influences from other sources, including an evolution of their own? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Replies:
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: October 20 2014 at 20:22
|
Almost everything new I hear reminds of the big five in one place or another. Since these are the artists who established the nature of Prog, the influence is ubiquitous. New artists have indeed moved on, but the roots remain the same. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 00:51
|
They should listen to King Crimson! Their concert in Chicago on 26 Sept, 2014 was one of the best I'd ever seen (and I've seen the CTTE tour in '72, LTIA in '73, Relayer, TAAB etc. tours!) This was Crimson's stage setup, THREE drummers! 
|
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 09:13
|
The one band I don't hear "new" bands talk about is ELP. Of course the two albums they generally know about is Tarkus and BSS. Greg Lake probably gets more mentioned due to his KC days and Asia success. But prog bands will always make mention of a few of the 4-6 top influential progressive bands and they have their individual influences also. In liner notes of Riverside albums drummer Piotr Kozieradzki and guitarist Piotr Grudzinski mention bands like Zeppelin, Judas Priest, Rush. Keyboardist Michal Lapaj mentions Jordan Rudess......makes sense based on the type of music they play. -------------   
|
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 09:25
^This..... 2 of my favorite newer bands are Astra and Wobbler and they have influence from KC, Yes, Floyd, and Genesis. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Progosopher wrote:Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 09:38
 So glad that you able to see them in such great form.  |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:02
|
^ Yea....I wanted to go see them in Seattle but a good reason kept me away...my daughter's wedding. -------------
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:14
|
^You should have done what I did and hired a KC cover band for the reception. Just kidding. Congratulations Jose. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:18
One is usually more than enough for me. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:29
Never.....it would have been a Rush cover band  -------------
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:30
^Of course. What was I thinking?
 ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:32
Its called a brain fart -------------
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:36
|
^Good. That sounds much better than senile!
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 12:31
|
Depends entirely on the band and the sound they're going for. It's interesting you pick Moon Safari as there sound is very heavily borrowed from Yes so I'd say the top bands of the early 70's definitely still hold a strong influence, even if it is occasionally filtered, but at the same time the breadth of influence is just going to grow the more time passes. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
|
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 13:41
 to this topic. I find it tepid and insincere.
|
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 13:45
bands not lead by a keyboard player are unlikely to be influenced by ELP to be fair prog bands I know that are influenced by ELP can be counted on the fingers of one hand Triumvirat (Germany) Le Orme (Italy) Par Lindh Project (Swedish) Ars Nova (Japan) Mastermind (USA) only one per country allowed?! |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 14:05
Greg Lake's Asia success? 
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 14:39
 ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 14:49
What can we do to make it not so? ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 14:52
|
^What should you do is the question. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 14:55
Is Hawken different than Haken? I'd argue tat bands are generally pursuing their own interests, which just happens to fall into the realm of prog. You can write an amazing epic without having heard Supper's Ready or Close to the Edge. You need some good cohesive musicians with a bit of inspiration. I think the closest you can come to an answer (without walking up to the artists and specifically asking them) would be their debut albums. I haven't heard any of these bands' debuts, but that's probably the closest you'll get to their influences rather than their own uniqueness. What do you think? ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 14:57
Should? Suddenly the responsibility has been thrust onto me. ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 15:01
 . But you're answer was pretty good.------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 15:03
 ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 15:17
Ignore it, and maybe it and the others derived from the same source will go away. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 15:21
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 15:40
If you look at Eastern Europe, you can add Marian Varga and Collegium Musicum, partially After Crying, then the swedish Par Lindh is quite an Emerson's clone. EL&P have been more influential than what people usually thinks, but they have one problem: You have to to be skilled enough to play as any of them (that's why in Eastern Europe they had more followers: there is a different culture of classical music respect to the west) ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Friday13th
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 16:04
|
You can tell Mikael Akerfeldt has been lovin' some ELP as of late Granted, they're not as respected by modern audiences (especially in the U.S./U.K.) compared to other big prog bands. However, look up the famous video game composers like Koji Kondo, and they basically worship ELP!
|
Posted By: elpprogster
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 16:14
Well, as far as I know, ELP is nowadays often cited as an influence or inspiration to general Rock acts, such as for example Joe Bonamassa did recently. Concerning actual or new prog/neo prog bands, its a sad fact that no one comes recently citing or showing directly ELP as their influences or just looking like them. However in the reent past, there were a quite more bands influenced by ELP than the alredy listed above. Here´s a small and "hopefully" incomplete list by country: - Argentina: NEXUS; - Germany: AMOS KEY, TRITONUS, TRIUMVIRAT; - Italy: LE ORME, TRIADE, (and to some extent Rustichelli and Bordini, the guys who did the Scolopendra album etc) - Japan: ARS NOVA, DEJA-VU, SOCIAL TENSION, GERARD - Uk: DAGABAND - USA: POLIPHONY, QUILL, CAIRO, GLASS HAMMER |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 22:38
| I so prefer LE ORME to ELP, much warmer sound to me, but it's definitely true that in their early classic period they were very influenced by ELP right down to their structure Later on, less so. |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: October 21 2014 at 23:03
------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 01:01
admittedly a lot of bands I'm not familiar with in that list. The very last band you mention are Glass Hammer and certainly they made perhaps one album that could be considered ELP influenced (Chronomotree) but in general Yes are a much stronger influence and I think that also goes for a great many modern symph bands.
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 09:37
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 09:56
Glass Hammer......good call! -------------
|
Posted By: elpprogster
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 10:15
Her´s a list of ELP influenced bands, although I don´t agree on most of them I think "my list" is more faithful  :http://www.brain-salad.com/OtherBands/otherbands.html By the way, another ELP influenced band from Denmark in the 70´s: IRON DUKE
|
Posted By: elpprogster
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 10:20
| And another from USA: MONOLITH http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1032 |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 10:31
Tritonus is a band a lot of people miss, but it's pretty understandable. Peter Seiler's more known as a solo artist in the 80s on the Innovative Communication label. That's a good list, to which we can add: - CHILE: Jaime Rosas Trio: after a one-man album called Virgo, keyboardist Rosas formed the JRT and recorded Extremos (the next album added a guitarist and "Trio" became "Cuarteto"). - GERMANY: Trilogy, with their dual keyboardist setup. ELP definitely had a hand in shaping their sound, as if you couldn't tell by their name! - JAPAN: Motoi Sakuraba, aka the "Keith Emerson of Japan," who has an extensive discography, and who also recorded one great album with Deja Vu, called Baroque of the Future. - JAPAN: Social Tension, a full-on ELP-styled ALL-instrumental trio with fantastic keyboarding...too bad they faded away almost as quickly as they materialized. Every ELP fan should own the compilation It Reminds Me of...MacBethia which combines their amazing debut It Reminds Me of Those Days with the best material from their not-as-amazing sophomore effort MacBethia. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 10:34
|
^Wow! Great list!
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 10:36
I've never heard of Iron Duke. Good? That list is woefully incomplete. I don't agree with the inclusion of Under The Sun. Another new name to me is Uku Meri. Has anyone heard their music? ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: elpprogster
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 14:57
Thanks for reminding about TRILOGY; as a matter of fact from Germany I´ve yet another one: REJOICE. There´s also TRESPASS from Israel and PATHERNON from Argentina! |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 15:35
| I remember vaguely a band called Trilogy in the eighties . They used to play the Stingray theme. Might be a different band though. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: October 22 2014 at 15:58
I should have remember Trespass! Their first CD has some great music, but the vocals bring it down. The second CD's better. I've not heard Rejoice or Pathernon. The review of Rejoice on PA isn't too flattering, and there's no entry for Pathernon. I just remembered Alaska. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: cemego
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 12:09
|
I always thought steve wilson and even porcupine tree have a lot of Camel influence in them. The newer opeth stuff sounds VERY much like deep purple or uriah heep. I dont know if this is the "top whatever" bands of prog (camel, deep purple, uriah heep)... but this is my 2 cents worth on this. ------------- listen to streaming stuff! no commercials! http://wmom.servemp3.com:8000/listen.pls |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 14:20
|
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 17:44
| Interesting topic. It's hard to say. It depends on how people are using the term "progressive rock." I still think there is a big distinction between prog and say fusion, electronic, post rock, indie rock, psychedelic etc so I think the band has to be pretty commonly referred to as prog for a band to be influenced by them if they want to start a prog band. It's one thing to have influences but if your main influences are indie bands, alternative and maybe some prog then you aren't necessarily going to be forming a full on prog band. At some point the big newer prog bands were Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, Flower Kings and maybe IQ. Now I'm not so sure who the big name newer prog bands are that are getting people exciting except maybe Big Big Train, Anathema or Riverside. There are just so many and I don't see many being singled out. There seems to be a lot of competition. To answer the question I would say the younger folks are probably mostly influenced by Pink Floyd and Rush and to a lesser extent Yes and Genesis. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 18:39
Thanks for that! They reminded me of how very important "the drum" is in King Crimson's music!! With three drummers, the music was very rich! Drummers were Gavin Harrison, Pat Mastelotto and Bill Rieflin, and they all did many things! Mastelotto did an amazingly good Jamie Muir imitation during the LTIA material, and Bill Rieflin did a bunch of Mellotron synth work! When they were all going at it together, it was thunderous and wonderful!
|
Posted By: TradeMark0
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 21:41
|
I listened to the bands you listed and here's what I think their influences are Haken: I definitely hear a gentle giant influence here Karnivool: Without a doubt the biggest tool ripoff I've heard Moon safari: I guessed they were a yes ripoff by the name, Turns out I guessed right. The pineapple thief: sounds like watered down indie rock. There are prog moments but I don't really hear any specific prog influences. TesseracT: heavily influenced by tool and meshuggah I would say there are more influential bands than just the big 5. Gentle giant, jethro tull, van der graaf generator, and camel were all pretty influential. There do seem to be a lot of bands influenced by prog metal bands as well. I'm not sure what you meant by "metal core taking over that role". I definitly do see progressive metalcore bands but I don't think they have that large of an influence. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 02:25
| ^ Haken have a variety of influences while Moon Safari are more Beach Boys ( who influenced Yes btw). Not famiiar with the other bands. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 03:34
| I think The Pineapple Thief are mostly indie, but they have some clever Radiohead-like experimentalism, with an almost Porcupine Tree dynamicism. They fit perfectly into Crossover but I don't hear any influences from 'classic' Prog bands. Many bands can have Floydian flavours without even knowing it. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 04:01
|
I really dig 'What We Have Sown' but I think they have an obvious Porcupine Tree sound. From the vocals right down to the synths and guitars. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 05:11
When I saw The Pineapple Thief play live at NEARfest 2010, I could not help noticing a heavy Radiohead influence - especially in the vocals. However, there was very little in their music that suggested classic prog, as others have pointed out in previous posts. This was probably why the majority of the audience (mostly composed by fans of traditional prog) could not relate to the band. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 05:29
|
Hmmm yeah now that you mention it, there may be a little Yorke to the vocals, but then again I always thought he sounded like Wilson - or is that the other way around.....(nahh Steve was first)....at least the whining and melancholic end of their respectable pipes do sound alike. -Just like every other band out there trying to be overly passionate and droopy at the same time: Muse, Mew, Gazpacho, Keane, Kashmir, Coldplay etc etc. In the mid 90s when these vocals first got launched, i thought it was just a passing phase. Who knew it'd turn out to be the blueprint for the upcoming generations of alternative/indie/shoegaze singers? Also inspired most bands inside the ridiculously named sub genre of post-progressive (where Pineapple Thief often is placed).
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 05:40
I love your definition of that vocal style, though I personally tend to be a bit harsher when describing Wilson's vocals (I have been known to use the word "soporific", at least when talking with like-minded people  ). As to the post-progressive tag (hopefully not to become a new subgenre on PA!), it is often identified with bands or artists on the KScope label - many of whom, unfortunately, sound somewhat sleep-inducing to these ears. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 06:15
|
The Kscope label reminds me of a modern take on the ECM sound of the 80s. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 06:32
| I do admire how TPT's leader, Bruce Soord, composes many a catchy tune in odd metres, and their longer workouts are 'progressively' structured. Quality musicianship all round, though they fail to be a convincing Prog act. I do, however, enjoy the albums I have by them. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 08:42
|
Posted By: TradeMark0
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 09:24
| I might listen to the pineapple thief again. I do like indie and alternative but I find these guys kind of boring. As for haken, gentle giant was just the first influence I heard.theres probably some king crimson as well as other influences. |
Posted By: Greg W
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 10:26
|
I always thought it as the Big Seven, with the above mentioned bands, as well as Jethro Tull and Rush included. Certainly, there are Neo prog bands out there who were influenced by Rush |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 11:04
| There are many influenced by Rush's original ideas. One idea that has been repeated by other bands is the syncopation in Rush's music , often accented primarily by Neil Peart along with Alex Lifeson's and Geddy Lee's strokes it forms an original sound. Notice some of the patterns Happy Family play when doing a version of "Bulgarian Flying Spirit Dances" (Daniel Denis). I've never heard the original version, but when hearing this one...I hear an emulation of the Rush sound. These ideas Rush used were definitely used before. The greatness of Rush existed in their ability to taking further steps with those ideas and forming a very original sound. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 11:31
|
The more sophisticated side to Jethro Tull's composition not only influenced many Progressive Rock bands of the 70's , but many bands in recent times. The only one that comes to mind for me is ..Solaris..although there are many others I've heard over the years. I appreciate Solaris for ideas of their own and apart from their great musicianship, I believe they are sincere about any emulation borrowed from Jethro Tull Yes influenced musicians to write melodic and to back the melody with atmospheric keyboard sounds. Genesis accomplished something special in this area. For example..when you hear Peter Gabriel singing over a soundscape created by atmospheric sounding keyboard settings..while the rest of the band is not playing is a method used in theatre composition. All of this approach can be attributed to the concepts of writing Prog today. These methods derived from ideas in the 70's cannot be duplicated with new ideas on a high bracket rating scale. The Neo Prog bands who have total originality are few when compared to the vastness of the obvious emulation of the 70's existing in the majority of them. This was a huge slap in the face during the 70's as well. Even a decent amount of 70's underground Progressive Rock bands emulated the big 5 or 7 to a point where it was utterly a letdown. During that time period someone like Francis Monkman would come along and present original keyboard style placed within Progressive Rock along side of about 60 or 70 others who refused to do that. Graham Field , keyboardist with Rare Bird produced an Emerson on "As Your Mind Flies By". David Greenslade was naturally a Classical sounding player and possibly any emulation sounding like Emerson and Wakeman was the reason for that cause to be in question by fans of the 70's. Rod Argent in the very early days of Argent had some originality in his improvisation and wasn't emulating anyone in particular. Vincent Crane was an accomplished pianist in the area of Jazz and often added in chord voicings and obscure sounding improvisation that perhaps was never conceived by the "Big 5".
|
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 31 2014 at 11:51
|
Gentle Giant's music revolved around a concept of using counterpoint in either a small portion of a song or the entire song itself. Nevertheless, that idea was injected into the concept of writing a Rock song. It was incorporated around the lyrics of their songs and accompanied the vocal. The easiest introduction to understanding their method is to learn and play "Bouree In Eminor" by J.S. Bach. After learning that one piece, the inventive style of Gentle Giant becomes very adaptable. I think it would be a great help if many Prog musicians that emulate Robert Fripp could find a different way of composing around the tri-tone interval. Phil Miller already emulated Bob Fripp in the late 70's. Even Steve Howe sounded a bit like Fripp in "The Ancient". This kind of emulation has already taken place years before and the goal now should be to find your own voice. For example...if you are young and choose to play in a original "Space Rock" band, for God's Sake..please stop imitating Hawkwind and Gong. Try to remember that when Hawkwind and Gong toured the "Space Rock" music scene in the 70's, there were other "Space Rock' bands among them that sounded quite different for example: Amon Dull II and Can. Hardly anyone attempted to copy Hawkwind's sound until the arrival of Ozric Tentacles, so that idea should be buried by now.
|