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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:43
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 

The materials weren't originally published at NASA website.
The maps of the Moon were (and still are) and that is all I have discussed here. I may look at the other videos later if I can be bothered, but having shown that one is a gross misinterpretation I do not see the point in looking at the others.

I repeat: discuss my points and refute them or present ideas of your own. Arguing over whether they were leaked or not is unproductive. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 06:52
Those videos are very interesting.






Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 06:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 07:17
And so to the next one....

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:



Dont worry, Dean. Any similarity with Sputnik satellite was accidental LOL

So, if not Sputnik, what do you, Sventonio, think this painting is depicting?

My analytical and artistic mind (yay! I have both, who would have thought it?) sees the Sun and Moon on that blue globe, I wonder why they are there? Could they be the reflection of an overhead electric light and a telephoto camera lens? And those wands that those two chaps are holding onto, could they be antenna or something? Gosh that would be a revelation wouldn't it - electric light, camera lenses and antenna in a 17th century painting, like wow! I wonder if there are examples of this in other paintings?

Holy crap, would you look at that!





...oh man, give me a break. LOL



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 07:47











The Maddona with Saint Giovannino, Pallaco Veccio, 15th century, Italy

Isn't very strange that the renaissance artist - who painted that Maddona so beautiful - "doesn't  know" to paint the Sun well, although he painted the figure in a landscape who is watching that "sun"?






Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 08:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 08:20
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

And so to the next one....

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:



Dont worry, Dean. Any similarity with Sputnik satellite was accidental LOL

So, if not Sputnik, what do you, Sventonio, think this painting is depicting?

My analytical and artistic mind (yay! I have both, who would have thought it?) sees the Sun and Moon on that blue globe, I wonder why they are there? Could they be the reflection of an overhead electric light and a telephoto camera lens? And those wands that those two chaps are holding onto, could they be antenna or something? Gosh that would be a revelation wouldn't it - electric light, camera lenses and antenna in a 17th century painting, like wow! I wonder if there are examples of this in other paintings?

Holy crap, would you look at that!





...oh man, give me a break. LOL




From where those highly polished balls come to the religious painting created at the time when the people believed that the Earth is flat and when just perfect metal spheres could not been seen so frequently


Edited by Svetonio - January 04 2014 at 08:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 10:29

The Baptism of Christ  by Flamish artist Aert De Gelder, 1710, Fitzwilliam Museum - Cambridge, England.

In this case, a comment is unnecessary.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:02
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

From where those highly polished balls come to the religious painting created at the time when the people believed that the Earth is flat and when just perfect metal spheres could not been seen so frequently 
Go away. No really, if you are going to spout ill-informed nonsense like that you should just simply go away. There is nothing of value you could possibly contribute to any subject of study that exists anywhere, ever. I'm being serious here. If you believe that people in the 17th century thought the world was flat then there is nothing that you could possibly say that has any value what-so-ever. It is a myth, worse than that, it is wholly incorrect and 100% inaccurate - educated people have known that the Earth was spherical since 300BCE, it has been a widely held belief throughout the whole of Europe since the 14th century. When that painting was produced the idea of a flat-Earth was viewed as being rather silly.

However, what is depicted in the paintings is not the earth, nor are they highly polished balls - for one thing they are not reflecting their surroundings - 17th century painters knew how to paint reflective surfaces, they have know how to do that since the 15th century when van Eyck painted the famous Arnolfini Wedding painting - the images that look like reflections are actually details on the surface of the sphere and they are the Sun and the Moon. The spherical object is the Celestial Sphere (which it why it contains the Moon and Sun) and shows the two fellows in the pictures have dominion over the whole universe, this is paralleled with the smaller orbis terrarum, (which later became the globus cruciger), that is uses to show the church's dominion over the World. 

Artists commissioned to paint religious paintings were not free to paint whatever they liked. They painted what their patrons (the Bishops and Cardinals) told them to paint.

Ignorance of history is not an excuse.


Edited by Dean - January 04 2014 at 13:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:21
This has to be a joke. LOL
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:25
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

This has to be a joke. LOL
I really hope so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:32
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


The Baptism of Christ  by Flamish artist Aert De Gelder, 1710, Fitzwilliam Museum - Cambridge, England.

In this case, a comment is unnecessary.
Apparently it is:


"As soon as Jesus was baptised, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."" - Matthew 3:16

Note the scripture does not say: "At that moment a spaceship did appear and four tractor beams alighted on him." Geek




Edited by Dean - January 04 2014 at 13:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:51

Albino Sasquatches piloting Ufo's to create crop circles. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 13:59
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 
Isn't very strange that the renaissance artist - who painted that Maddona so beautiful - "doesn't  know" to paint the Sun well, although he painted the figure in a landscape who is watching that "sun"?
It is not the Sun. No one has ever said it was the Sun. If there is a Sun in the picture it's on the left of the Madonna (one "D" two "N"s).

I don't know what it is, the best guess is it is an illuminous cloud or the holy spirit, except it could be a lot brighter. There is a similar object in a painting of the Annunciation that shows the holy spirit in the form of a dove descending from an illuminous cloud. I cannot think of one valid reason why Filippino Lippi would paint a UFO in this painting and not in any other.

In all these: Why would any religious paintings ever depict a UFO? Give me one good reason. Hell, I'm feeling generous: I'll accept one half-baked reason.


Edited by Dean - January 04 2014 at 18:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 16:33
It is probably also relevant here that the British occultist Aleister Crowley claimed to have met an angel called Lam, who in Crowley's drawing hereof strongly resemble the "Greys" who currently besiege UFO contactees.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 17:13
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

It is probably also relevant here that the British occultist Aleister Crowley claimed to have met an angel called Lam, who in Crowley's drawing hereof strongly resemble the "Greys" who currently besiege UFO contactees.



Yes, he is Lam I remember his face... he is a grey variety
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 17:22
You cannot be Sirius. Shocked





Edited by Dean - January 04 2014 at 17:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 17:44
Before anyone gets too carried away...


This is what greys typically look like in people's drawings:

and this is Crowley's Lam:


Rather than compare the few superficial similarities, why not concentrate on the marked differences.


...and remember Crowley was a second-rate writer, and a third-rate artist, these are his self-portraits:


... Conclude from those what you will.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 19:08
What he looks the the most like, though, is Megamind.



Jokes aside, I think it's interesting that Greys in both appearance and especially in behaviour correspond not insignificantly to "The Fair Folk" pre-Disneyfication as well as demons in some cultural traditions. I basically think it's the same mythological archetype at play in different contexts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 19:26
[/QUOTE]

This is the illustration used for the Communion cover--   interestingly, Strieber now says he wishes he hadn't used the image, as it too strongly suggested the classic alien character.    He now feels his "visitors" mayn't have been from outer space.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 19:34
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I assume his point is that seemingly otherworldly events are captured in ancient art.   Though to me, a man in a starship or balls of fire in the sky don't indicate anything paranormal.  
I know what he was probably inferring, I wanted it from his own mouth in his own words. I don't presume to assume anything.

A man in a starship in the 12th century is paranormal. Even if it was 100% real it is still paranormal. We must agree use a common vocabulary here or it just becomes a game of clever word play, and that will only add to the confusion, especially for those for whom English is a second language.

A man in a starship in the 12th century is indeed paranormal.   But a painting of one is not.   Rather, it reflects both man's imagination and yearning to trek outward.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2014 at 19:39
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:


Jokes aside, I think it's interesting that Greys in both appearance and especially in behaviour correspond not insignificantly to "The Fair Folk" pre-Disneyfication as well as demons in some cultural traditions. I basically think it's the same mythological archetype at play in different contexts.
How so? There isn't actually a consistent description of either so there cannot be a not insignificant correspondence between them. However, I do agree with the premise in principle - aliens are the new mythology or as (my favourite SF author) John T Sladek put it : The New Apocrypha.


It was written in 1974 but is still a tome worth reading, if only for the chapter on UFOs.

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