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Yes "Mirror To The Sky" Review

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lazland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lazland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2023 at 13:59
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

To all my detractors: I hear you and I appreciate you.

I know by posting my YouTube videos here I open myself up to derision and ridicule - and that's okay!!!

Prog On!!! And I love you all...
There's no derision and ridicule from me. It's an excellent review for what promises to be a great album in the  YES canon. It's the long-awaited prog album everyone's talking about this year, even if the comments aren't always positive. From what I've heard of the album so far, I'm sure Mirror to the Sky will turn out to be every bit as good as The Quest album before it. Thumbs Up

I don't think there is any argument amongst most punters that Mirror to the Sky will turn out to be every bit as good as The Quest. Indeed, it is this that worries me about it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2023 at 23:01
Well what a surprise this one turned to be. Quest it definitely isn't. Everything about original Yes including polyrhythm, changes of tempo and instrumental virtuosity is there. Ok, Jon Anderson is missing. He is irreplaceable. However this is easily their best album since Magnification and the title track is easily their best song since "In the Presence of". Jay Schellen is actually a much drummer than Alan White in his latter years and maybe that's why this album appeals so much to me. The previous two albums simply don't do this great band justice. I would have preferred a little less filler with the music crammed into a single CD rather than spread out onto two CD's. An example of this is the track "Luminosity" which starts innocuously, then at around the 5 minute mark Steve Howe comes in with some beautiful dulcimer playing with Jay Schellen going off in his own direction. Sherwood is to be congratulated for his bass work keeping in the style of Chris Squire. And the orchestral arrangements are perfect, particularly on the title track. Mirror To The Sky is a brilliant return to form. Pity it took 20 years for the band Yes to find their voice again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Octopus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2023 at 08:52
Am loving the new album. Lovely Roger Dean cover as well! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2023 at 13:19
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Here's the perfect review from RYM

Fake Yes
Jon Davison, Geoff Downes, Steve Howe, Jay Schellen, Billy Sherwood.
This group is Not Yes. They should not use the name.
They are tarnishing the legacy of Yes.

RYM Rating 1.51 / 5.0 from 23 rating

An ABYSMAL FAILURE

Yeah, it's always fun when people post dumb non-reviews without hearing the work. Ermm

I've been very critical of recent versions of Yes in the past but lately I've come around to liking them very much, mainly because of the truly excellent album they just put out. Also before that I listened to a lot of the recent Yes live albums while reading the thunderously boring Steve Howe autobiography and found that despite the sluggish tempos the music stands up well even in that form and nowadays when I listen to Yes I often listen to the live works from the Jon 2 era. 

If you believe "tarnishing a legacy" is a thing that exists, the earlier lineups of Yes did their very best to achieve it throughout the 80s and 90s. The current Yes is a good group of musicians partly hand-picked and approved by the deceased classic predecessors, not some random guys found from wherever. If they want to continues to call themselves Yes when performing classic Yes material and recording new music sounding like Yes, that's absolutely nobody else's business as long as they hold the legal right to do so. I can't recall anybody complaining about Andy Latimer continuing as Camel after every single classic member and co-writer dropped out and he kept assembling various different line-ups. I wonder why Yes is such a special case as to warrant so much hatred.


Edited by Pekka - May 27 2023 at 13:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2023 at 13:32
Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

If you believe "tarnishing a legacy" is a thing that exists, the earlier lineups of Yes did their very best to achieve it throughout the 80s and 90s. The current Yes is a good group of musicians partly hand-picked and approved by the deceased classic predecessors, not some random guys found from wherever. If they want to continues to call themselves Yes when performing classic Yes material and recording new music sounding like Yes, that's absolutely nobody else's business as long as they hold the legal right to do so. I can't recall anybody complaining about Andy Latimer continuing as Camel after every single classic member and co-writer dropped out and he kept assembling various different line-ups. I wonder why Yes is such a special case as to warrant so much hatred.

If you're comparing Camel and Yes, it's a different situation. Latimer was in the band since day one, he is the heart and soul of the band. Also Camel hasn't released new music since 2002. 
On the other hand, Yes keeps releasing albums that are poorly received by listeners, they even made two versions of the same album. LOL There are no original members in Yes. It's just Steve Howe's band now, might as well call themselves Steve Howe's Yes. Evil Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2023 at 15:15
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

If you're comparing Camel and Yes, it's a different situation. Latimer was in the band since day one, he is the heart and soul of the band. Also Camel hasn't released new music since 2002. 
On the other hand, Yes keeps releasing albums that are poorly received by listeners, they even made two versions of the same album. LOL There are no original members in Yes. It's just Steve Howe's band now, might as well call themselves Steve Howe's Yes. Evil Smile

Latimer is seen as the heart and the soul of the band exactly because he kept on doing it when others didn't. It was a very even partnership between himself and Peter Bardens up until he left (and especially Andy Ward's drum style was a very integral part of the classic Camel sound), just like Steve Howe was part of a strong songwriting team for the vast majority of the career of Yes. At least I don't care one bit that they made two mediocre albums before he came and made them an infinitely better band. 

The point is that in both cases the membership of the band has been fluctuating organically for decades and the end result is that one classic member is remaining. And in the case of Yes the last two replacements have been exceptionally well handled.

Yes have been releasing albums that have been poorly received by the listeners for decades regardless of who has been in the band at the time, and the sad debacle around Fly From Here is just another proof that they were capable of "tarnishing their legacy" even before Steve Howe's solitary reign. What matters the most to me is that after decades of drifting lost at sea the current line-up has actually been a prolific active group and has finally recorded a great Yes album after a long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2023 at 15:21
Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

What matters the most to me is that after decades of drifting lost at sea the current line-up has actually been a prolific active group and has finally recorded a great Yes album after a long time.

I don't share your enthusiasm with the new album. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2023 at 15:30
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I don't share your enthusiasm with the new album. 

And that's ok! But I've been glad to see very much positivity surrounding Mirror to the Sky even in Facebook comment sections which are usually a horrible cesspool of negativity and hatred. Seems a lot of people have had their modest expectations surpassed. I had absolutely none and this has been the best musical surprise this year by far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 00:08
Upon a brief listen, I'd say that Jon Davison's vocals have improved a great deal!  I think he's finally living up to the recommendation I made back in 2011!! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 03:05
Jon Davison has never been a problem imo , I followed his career with Glass Hammer and their most highly rated album If (and this over a long standing career for GH) was primarily down to him. He's not Jon Anderson and apparently a lot of people can't forgive him for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intruder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 09:18
Shockingly good album from these cats at this juncture in their shared careers.....but it still ain't Yes, never will be.  That said, it's better by leaps than the last two.....maybe their best since 2001's Magnificaiton.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 09:40
Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Here's the perfect review from RYM

Fake Yes
Jon Davison, Geoff Downes, Steve Howe, Jay Schellen, Billy Sherwood.
This group is Not Yes. They should not use the name.
They are tarnishing the legacy of Yes.

RYM Rating 1.51 / 5.0 from 23 rating

An ABYSMAL FAILURE

Yeah, it's always fun when people post dumb non-reviews without hearing the work. Ermm

I've been very critical of recent versions of Yes in the past but lately I've come around to liking them very much, mainly because of the truly excellent album they just put out. Also before that I listened to a lot of the recent Yes live albums while reading the thunderously boring Steve Howe autobiography and found that despite the sluggish tempos the music stands up well even in that form and nowadays when I listen to Yes I often listen to the live works from the Jon 2 era. 

If you believe "tarnishing a legacy" is a thing that exists, the earlier lineups of Yes did their very best to achieve it throughout the 80s and 90s. The current Yes is a good group of musicians partly hand-picked and approved by the deceased classic predecessors, not some random guys found from wherever. If they want to continues to call themselves Yes when performing classic Yes material and recording new music sounding like Yes, that's absolutely nobody else's business as long as they hold the legal right to do so. I can't recall anybody complaining about Andy Latimer continuing as Camel after every single classic member and co-writer dropped out and he kept assembling various different line-ups. I wonder why Yes is such a special case as to warrant so much hatred.


The difference is Squire who owned the Yes brand name was free to do what he wanted. Now that he's gone it seems that the band should simply call themselves something else. It's like simply assuming the identity of your dead grandfather or something and expecting everybody to pretend you are the same person. Actually fans do complain about other bands doing the same. Camel, Gong etc. The smart bands like Gentle Giant simply moved on. Of course they can do what they want. I just thought the review someone published on RYM was interesting as it reflects a popular reaction to the "new" Yes. If the band had changed its name to something else no one would even care. It's only the Yes brand name attached that anybody is listening to this at all. That's what's meant by tarnishing the legacy. When all is said and done they will probably keep cranking out crap to Ok-ish albums but what we find here is that fans are practicing tolerance. I doubt anybody is blown away :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 10:58
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

The difference is Squire who owned the Yes brand name was free to do what he wanted. Now that he's gone it seems that the band should simply call themselves something else.

Despite the reported fact that Squire explicitly told them to continue as Yes after he's gone?

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

It's like simply assuming the identity of your dead grandfather or something and expecting everybody to pretend you are the same person.

If Billy Sherwood grew a beer belly and changed his name to Chris Squire expecting nobody to notice this would be a very good analogy. Musical groups have been fluid collectives for the entire history of popular music so it really does not apply here at all.

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Actually fans do complain about other bands doing the same. Camel, Gong etc. The smart bands like Gentle Giant simply moved on.

I've spent half my life reading online discussions on Camel and I can't recall a single instance where people loudly complained that Latimer is tarnishing the legacy of Camel and should just call it the Andy Latimer Band or something. Gentle Giant just split altogether and went their different ways so it's an entirely different situation than Yes and Camel. I don't know how smart it would be to abandon your somewhat guaranteed livelihood if one of your co-workers decided they didn't want to continue, just because a portion of the audience holds arbitrary opinions on how a band should be allowed to change. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 12:19
Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

The difference is Squire who owned the Yes brand name was free to do what he wanted. Now that he's gone it seems that the band should simply call themselves something else.

Despite the reported fact that Squire explicitly told them to continue as Yes after he's gone?

Personally i don't care. There is not one original Yes member left.

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

It's like simply assuming the identity of your dead grandfather or something and expecting everybody to pretend you are the same person.

If Billy Sherwood grew a beer belly and changed his name to Chris Squire expecting nobody to notice this would be a very good analogy. Musical groups have been fluid collectives for the entire history of popular music so it really does not apply here at all.

True but there comes a point when not a single original member is left and it's a completely new organism is it still the same beast? The whole point of evolution is to diverge into different species. At this point Yes is a different musical species indeed and in biology at least once a species is sufficiently distinct from its parent ancestor, we RENAME it :)

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Actually fans do complain about other bands doing the same. Camel, Gong etc. The smart bands like Gentle Giant simply moved on.

I've spent half my life reading online discussions on Camel and I can't recall a single instance where people loudly complained that Latimer is tarnishing the legacy of Camel and should just call it the Andy Latimer Band or something. Gentle Giant just split altogether and went their different ways so it's an entirely different situation than Yes and Camel. I don't know how smart it would be to abandon your somewhat guaranteed livelihood if one of your co-workers decided they didn't want to continue, just because a portion of the audience holds arbitrary opinions on how a band should be allowed to change. 


I've heard plenty of complaints from friends. Not everybody posts online ya know ;) Yeah i know the Yes brand is a cash cow. They will continue to milk it for eternity. However that rubs some of us the wrong way and i and many others have simply jumped off the Yes train and consider it a living fossil that is no longer relevant. It won't be long before many of the current members pass on as well so i suspect this will be a short-lived thing. I know Steve Howe is starving and living on the streets so he just has to keep this dead horse propped up for as long as he has breath. Whatever!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 13:39
@sILLy puPPy: Do you think it's the same with Gong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 14:11
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

@sILLy puPPy: Do you think it's the same with Gong?


Yep. Pretty much. I do like new Gong better than new Yes but ultimately the new stuff isn't remotely close to what classic Gong was. I guess the difference with Gong is that Daevid Allen let Gong go on without him while he was still alive and then came back as well as the greater Gong family branching off in myriad directions which makes it somewhat unique.

Perhaps Yes was simply following Allen's logic. The same goes for Soft Machine Legacy turning into Soft Machine which i personally don't like either (although i do like the music). ALthough the concept that Gong set forth seems to be a noble one, that is to keep a legend alive, unfortunately the talent that created it is gone and therefore no matter how well intended the newer band members are, it'll never be anything remotely similar to the classic sounds of the bands.

I mean what if all the children of the Beatles got together and called themselves The Beatles? Would that fly? I would be an interesting experiment for sure but should they use The Beatles' name? Probably not but then again any band can do whatever they want and if they want to continue in this direction, of course, is totally their prerogative.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pekka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 14:26
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Pekka Pekka wrote:

If Billy Sherwood grew a beer belly and changed his name to Chris Squire expecting nobody to notice this would be a very good analogy. Musical groups have been fluid collectives for the entire history of popular music so it really does not apply here at all.

True but there comes a point when not a single original member is left and it's a completely new organism is it still the same beast? The whole point of evolution is to diverge into different species. At this point Yes is a different musical species indeed and in biology at least once a species is sufficiently distinct from its parent ancestor, we RENAME it :)

Now this is the interesting discussion to be had! I don't put that much weight on being the original member, what's more important to me instead is if you took part in the classic works. So Rick Wakeman to me holds much more stake at the Yes name than Tony Kaye and Steve Howe much more than Peter Banks (if he was alive, that is). If Yes disbanded after two albums they would be a footnote, but the arrival of Howe in large part transformed them into the band most of us here love and Wakeman added the icing on the cake. I bet a lot more people would dispute the legitimacy of a Kaye/Banks led Yes than a Howe/Wakeman version. You can always take the "no original members left" argument to extremes and complain about an Åkerfeldt led Opeth since he's just the random bassist who wrestled control for himself.

Anyhow. It would be a totally different thing if after Yes disbanded in 1981 the next thing we know is years later Steve Howe starting the band up again with one-time minor member Geoff Downes and three random guys called Davison, Sherwood and Schellen. But as it happened the band slowly and organically evolved into the present state with each new member establishing themselves as solid contributors (Davison, Sherwood) or upgrades (Schellen) and not just hired guns (Downes seems to be the closest to that by far with not many writing credits to his name and no technical ability to match Wakeman). As a musical species they're much more in tune with the classic Yes qualities than some earlier formations with more original members. Musically I'm much happier with this Yes being Yes than the almost-Cinema calling themselves Yes back in the 80s. That was a very different species despite many of same names on the record sleeve.

It's an interesting discussion where there's really no right or wrong. I'm happy that they call themselves Yes because I might not have listened to Steve Howe Band's new album Mirror to the Sky at all. Now we have a band called Yes releasing an album sounding like Yes that's better than most other Yes albums since the 70s. Might be somewhere in my top 3 after Magnification which is the best by far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 14:33
^ i guess some of us just want MORE than they deliver now. Sure they can crank out an OK album but there's too much great music out to care about OK albums. In many ways people discount the band's first two albums so the Howe connection makes it legit since The Yes Album is what many CONSIDER the first popular Yes album (i actually love the first two albums a lot). Obviously there are enough who share your opinion so i don't blame them for going down this path. I do like that they have continued the Roger Dean album cover art, always loved it. When all is said and done though, i'd still rather listen to Wobbler or other modern day Yes reinterpretations than modern Yes itself :)

When all is said and done i don't care what the band is called. I'm just underwhelmed but i do see your point about the classic lineup carrying more weight than the original lineup. Anyway, like it or not, Yes is here!


Edited by siLLy puPPy - May 28 2023 at 14:36

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 15:07
On the Yes legacy topic, I don't think Mirror to the Sky has any lasting impact o e way or another. Yes is well-established as one of the exemplar progressive rock bands of the 70s with many prog-rock "classics" during that time. Their post 70s output has varied in style and quality, and the band is long-lived into the 2020s. There are details to be added, but that's short gist of their legacy. Mirror to the Sky doesn't change it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2023 at 16:17
There's a 50/50 chance I'll buy the new YES album, although there's only a 10% chance I'll find it in a charity shop bargain bin. After all, I'm still continuing my Quest to find the previous YES album at a bargain price. Tongue
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