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arcer 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
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Points: 1239
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 Topic: Great ELP Debate
Posted: January 07 2005 at 13:38 |
For a start apologies to 3F before I start....
but I went out and bought BSS about a month ago, after a discussion with 3F on the merits of ELP, whom I hadn;'t heard a lot of. She recommended a particualr best of, I couldn't find it, so prompted for BSS as a) it was on sale and b) it's supposed to be their corwning glory.
and .... I hate it. It just makes me laugh. I really wanted to like this record that is, apparently, so seminal, but to me it sounds like Spinal Tap. It's almost comical in its bombast, it's half-assed lyrics and its temerity. I liked parts of Karn Evil (couldn't tell you which impression) but ultimately I wish they'd done an impression of another band instead.
It's debt to the cheesier elements of the late 60s psyche/neophyte prog movement are for me unbearable and the whole Jerusalem debacle is just painful to my ears.
I had heard Pictures at an Exhibition before this but had dismissed that as a some kind of overblown error and was willing to investigate further but I now realise that all of ELP is like this. I know prog is over the top but come on!!! this is beyond the beyond.
The questions i have to ask are: were ELP the most bombastic band on earth? Are they the single greatest reason why prog is so reviled? And are they as awful and comical as I think they are?
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Reed Lover
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 13:41 |
Yes
But that's why we love em.
wonderful botched singing on Jerusalem to boot!
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Wrath_of_Ninian
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 13:54 |
Some are their greater moments are to be treasured. Unfortunately you have to sift through (or 'endure' as I put it) some 'less brilliant' material to find them...
In all honesty, Brain Salad Surgery has some awful cringey moments, and I'm not sure the balance is fully redressed, but the album as a whole should be taken in the humour in which it was conceived. Trilogy and Tarkus are consideraby better albums, though both contain horror moments. If you haven't heard Benny The Bouncer or Jeremy Bender yet, expect things to get a lot worse before they get any better...
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Garion81
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 13:59 |
Arcer,
I think old ELP more than just about anything else would be very difficult to get into after the fact. All Prog is bombastic, all of it. It was so supposed to be that is what made it different. It was also the reason it was criticized by rock and roll purists who only wanted three chords no talent and rebellion of some sort in their music. ELP took it other extremes for sure. This is the William Tell Overture and the 1812 Overture climax all rolled into one but played by three people using the top tech stuff of their time. We all loved it. We packed arenas in droves to see it and bought albums by the millions. It out Kissed Kiss if you understand what I mean. They tried but could not reach that level of outrageousness. I love this stuff all the way down to the last note of Jerusalem.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Syzygy
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 14:02 |
Whenever some smart arse media studies graduate starts droning on about how awful prog was on British TV, it's inevitably accompanied by a brief clip of Emerson abusing his organ (and sometimes doing strange things with keyboards as well fnarrr fnarrrr).
At times ELP summed up the best of 70s prog - for me, Tarkus, Karn Evil 9 and side 4 of Works (which I've burned onto a single disc) are indispensable. They also summed up the worst of 70s prog - Pictures at an Exhibition, large chunks of Welcome Back My Friends and their take on Jerusalem all make me cringe, and the less said about Jeremy Bender the better.
The point is, when it came to going over the top, no 70s prog act went further than ELP, and as Reed said, that's why we love 'em.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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threefates
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 14:05 |
Actually with ELP you either love them or hate them.. there doesn't seem to be much middle ground... Yeh, it ain't your mommas prog.. thats for sure....
They did have a sense of humor... something most prog music was missing, so whether you call Benny, Jeremy Bender or Are You Ready, Eddy...bombastic.. or just comedy relief... its all part of their style.
However, there was no botched vocals on Jerusalem!
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THIS IS ELP
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Swinton MCR
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 14:11 |
E.L.P - Pictures at an exhibition - Good - The Old castle, briliant synth solo. Then BSS - Karn Evil excellent in parts, a bit boring in others - Tarkus - Excellent especially aqua-tarkus synth solo.
There you have it from the Swinton point of view - Yes, Genesis and Camel all miles better, plus IQ, Pallas, Twelfth night...ALL BETTER,
But ELP are an essential to your prog rock collection, maybe I'll get round to listening to Trilogy one day....(After DSOTM??)
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Reed Lover
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 14:16 |
 threefates wrote:
However, there was no botched vocals on Jerusalem!
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oh c'mon. Swallow your pride!
oh I forgot....you did!
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threefates
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 15:01 |
Reed Lover wrote:
threefates wrote:
However, there was no botched vocals on Jerusalem!
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oh c'mon. Swallow your pride!
oh I forgot....you did!
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No wrong again... I didn't swallow "my" pride... that would be rather a miracle...
But atleast the pride I did swallow was moving... I doubt yours could get out of the chair!!
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THIS IS ELP
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Reed Lover
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 15:05 |
threefates wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
threefates wrote:
However, there was no botched vocals on Jerusalem!
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oh c'mon. Swallow your pride!
oh I forgot....you did!
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No wrong again... I didn't swallow "my" pride... that would be rather a miracle...
But atleast the pride I did swallow was moving... I doubt yours could get out of the chair!!
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Que?
i suppose it would be difficult to swallow a full lake!
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frenchie
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 15:07 |
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i was thinking of getting BBS and the debut album cos they r mega cheap remastered brand new (6.99) in my local record store. I dont like elp from the little i have heard from them. ive heard a few good stuff and0 LOTs of bad stuff but its worth a go... and if i dont like em then i will prolly have lots of fun laughing at how much of an atrocity they are said to be! but i am trying to expand my prog collection. they also have all the rush, genesis and camel albums for 6.99 which is damn cheap
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The Worthless Recluse
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Fitzcarraldo
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 15:09 |
I think BSS is the wrong place to start for someone who has heard little or no ELP, which is why I always recommend "Trilogy" to newcomers. It's a much less in-your-face album; less bombastic, and more subtle and accessible than their other stuff.
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frenchie
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 15:19 |
cool i shall get that too
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The Worthless Recluse
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Shatterwolf
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 17:01 |
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I just borrowed my friend Vinny's copy of Black Moon, and I thought Paper Blood, Romeo and Juilet, and Black Moon were all great. E.L.P. is different then what I'm use to, and I was pleasently surprised.
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richardh
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 17:20 |
Brain Salad Surgery has everything I love about prog rock.Easily my favourite album by a country mile and has been for 26 years.Trilogy,although not as good, is 'safer' which is why people often prefer that album.I can easily understand why people don't like ELP and it doesn't worry me.You gave them a listen, so therefore have an informed opinion.That's fine.
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benny bouncer
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 17:48 |
ELP ....IMO are a fantastic band!! BSS is one heck of an album, i also like 'Live at the Royal ALbert Hall'..the energy these guys put into that gig is unbelievable....but (take deep breath before saying title) 'Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends'....has to be one of the best live recordings ever (if you like ELP)
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Fitzcarraldo
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 20:56 |
Shatterwolf wrote:
I just borrowed my friend Vinny's copy of Black Moon, and I thought Paper Blood, Romeo and Juilet, and Black Moon were all great. E.L.P. is different then what I'm use to, and I was pleasently surprised. |
Yes, it was a pleasant surprise after "Love Beach". The tracks you mention are indeed good, although I wish Emerson had made a more radical arrangement of the Prokofiev piece. As for the title track (which is about the 'first' Gulf War), it's atmospheric. I like the way Emerson used synthesizer to imitate the 'crump' of shells coming in - a frightening sound. A very commercial album compared to the first five ELP albums, but a good album nonetheless.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 21:41 |
Contrary to what most should believe after my discussion with Threefates on other thread I love ELP's first 5 albums in different degrees:
ELP: Is a great debut for a band, much better than others like Genesis or Yes, not their peak but still a very strong album. The Barbarian, Take a Pebble and Knife Edge are incredible songs, The Three Fates is an interesting semi epic and Tank is good but not impressing for me, maybe the weakest would be the most famous of all, Lucky Man, except for the keyboards section.
Tarkus: An improvement since the debut album, the band shows more maturity. Everything except Are You Ready Eddy is outstanding.
Pictures at an Exhibition: One of my favorites, surely it has parts that I dislike but the merit of this album is that the band dared to play Mussorgsky's masterpiece in front of an audience of people that had probably never heard about the Russian composer. Is it bombastic and pompous? Yes, and that's the reason why I like it.
Trilogy: The band had reached the peak; I use the title track to describe people what progressive rock should be.
Brain Salad Surgery: I find no weak song in this album, love the version of Jerusalem and even Benny the Bouncer, humor has never killed anybody. Tocatta and Karn Evil 9 are probably the songs for which ELP will ever be remembered.
Works I: After 4 years with no studio release everything was downhill, this album has good moments but terrible ones also.
Piano Concerto has excellent moments but I don't find feet or head, Emerson proves he's a great pianist but this piece is not his strongest composition.
Lake's side is IMO the weakest of the album, songs like Ces't la Vie or Lend Your Love To Me Tonight are not recommended for people with diabetes, too simple and bland for my taste, Even when Greg's voice sounds incredible, the music doesn't help him.
Carl's side is my favorite, vital strong and imaginative.
Side 4 is not my cup of tea, Fanfare for the Common Man was done 5 years before by STYX, and their version was good, too long and repetitive for my taste the same goes for pirates.
About the other albums I talked too much on other thread so will only say all are below ELP's level.
ELP was one of my favorite bands that sadly reached their zenith too soon and started to burn only after a couple of years, there's still time for them to do another memorable album, if only they wish do it.
Iván
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BebieM
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 22:11 |
You are right, I don't like a lot of parts on BBS, but Trilogy is better IMO
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Gaston
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Location: Canada
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Posted: January 07 2005 at 23:26 |
I believe in you threefates!
Blast these haters!
Gaston
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It's the same guy. Great minds think alike.
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Great ELP Debate
