Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34055
|
Posted: June 22 2016 at 12:37 |
Richard Branson want to stay inside EU
|
|
|
A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
|
Posted: June 22 2016 at 14:19 |
Dean wrote:
The T wrote:
If UKIP wins, You keep that sh*t.
We already have our own... |
No kidding there, UKIP and the Tea Party are equally nasty. Now, if only we could ship Nigel out to Alaska.... |
Alaska is far too close to the rest of humanity to place someone like that.
|
|
silverpot
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 841
|
Posted: June 22 2016 at 14:47 |
|
|
silverpot
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 841
|
Posted: June 22 2016 at 15:06 |
I really hope UK will stay. There is nothing to gain in the long run to not have a union. What says that domestic politicians make so much better decisions than those in Brussells? Farage or Boris in the UK, Le Pen in France, Orbán in Hungary, just to mention a few scary guys and gals that must be stopped. EU government neesd to reform, I agree on that, but let's do it together. Make it better. As for the European song contest; be proud of your null points.
|
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: June 23 2016 at 01:37 |
Well, the time has come. The polls are open in the UK. Tomorrow we will know whether are going to be shafted by the EU or shafted by our own leaders. A historic day. A day when the British government turned to its people and asked them to vote on something that no one in the country has a f***ing clue about and could potentially destroy the country, and bring about a global crash.
Good times :-)
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: June 23 2016 at 03:24 |
As a non euro I shall respect the wishes of the OP and hey, guess it technically doesn't impact me though ya know, potential economic impacts of a Britain exit certainly would. As it would all of us.
Anywho, I'll just say the EU is an imperfect union. The drawbacks of trying to form a union exist, but without the benefits (economically) of central mechanisms. Thus this kind of policy handcuffing which has proven dangerous when some members slip and fall into a lake with 20 others attached... Also countries still play the old games of trade, meaning Germany's surplus is others deficit, and places still trying to fight for position. All understandable but as I once heard, no one measures the trade balance of California... A better working EU would require more integration, to the point of countries being actual states to a central power, an extremely difficult goal to say the least. Until such a thing, or reforms of some kind, happen Europe may be stuck in this "hand tied but all still independent" issue.
The UK has it a bit better by not being on the Euro, though (I am not sure how binding it is?) there are still EU laws mandating austerity, which I'll leave alone. I get why people may be skeptical/upset of giving up political and economic control to an "outside" power, in a way feels like here and "moneyed interests" and the oligarchy etc which guide our policies and the people seem to have little real input. That said, no one really has any idea what would happen with an exit, and what may result economically to the UK, EU and world. So yeah, my rambling on the generic situation, thoughts on how to vote, as a non Euro I shant touch it. Best of luck to whatever the outcome is
Edited by JJLehto - June 23 2016 at 03:27
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: June 23 2016 at 03:32 |
Sorry, you all have to keep Boris! And Le Pen, and Wilders, and UKIP, Lega Nord and all the right wing populist movements popping up I can't keep track of. The US is insane and disturbing, but finally we all are in the same boat, as citizens of the world we all must suffer together
Edited by JJLehto - June 23 2016 at 03:33
|
|
CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
|
Posted: June 23 2016 at 05:41 |
So, today is the day, and I can't help having a bad feeling: I fear that the exit of UE by UK would start a chain reaction of other "exits", leading not only to the collapse of UE, but to the destruction of the geopolitical "equilibrium" on the European continent. The UE is already a non-existent entity on the diplomatical level, but if it was to be reduced to the core of its founding members (and I even suspect some people already dreaming of a "Frexit"), it will have no power on the geopolitical field, leaving the only powers being the USA, Russia, China and a fourth player (India? Iran? A nationalistic Japan building its military power???) And that would not be good news for world peace... (maybe not so exagerated)
|
|
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: June 23 2016 at 06:29 |
CPicard wrote:
So, today is the day, and I can't help having a bad feeling: I fear that the exit of UE by UK would start a chain reaction of other "exits", leading not only to the collapse of UE, but to the destruction of the geopolitical "equilibrium" on the European continent. The UE is already a non-existent entity on the diplomatical level, but if it was to be reduced to the core of its founding members (and I even suspect some people already dreaming of a "Frexit"), it will have no power on the geopolitical field, leaving the only powers being the USA, Russia, China and a fourth player (India? Iran? A nationalistic Japan building its military power???) And that would not be good news for world peace... (maybe not so exagerated)
| I predict we'll vote to remain, but I agree with you regarding a possible chain reaction. If the vote is very close then this could tempt the skeptics in other member states to start pushing their nations towards the door. In the possible chaos that ensues, Putin will move his pieces on the great chessboard.
|
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
|
|
A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
|
Posted: June 23 2016 at 08:02 |
I think the Bremainers will win, personally
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: June 23 2016 at 22:48 |
Seems "leave" is winning.
The EU is very poorly designed and a bad deal for many of the countries involved I'd say, but it's also like the mafia: When you join you're in for life and leaving may result in your death. I'd say probably better to reform the EU instead of countries leaving, but now that leave seems like it'll win...what would happen?
I hear it's a non binding vote and maybe they simply will stay even if leave wins. If so...what would happen to Cameron? Is this simply a protest vote or do people really want/expect to leave? If so, I'd imagine there would have to be negative results for Cameron and co for ignoring the vote. Perhaps staying is important enough to risk this?
|
|
lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13606
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 00:06 |
Just got up to have a cup of tea and shower before going to work. Leave vote is on 52%, and is certain to win, a seismic vote in the UK. As it is only just 6.00 a.m. I am not in much of a state to comment in detail, , but looking at the results this vote confirms to me a point I have made a number of times here, that is the massive gap in attitudes towards politics and the world between the metropolitan world of London and the rest of us. From what I can make out, only Scotland and Northern Ireland outside of London voted to stay in in any numbers, which also raises some very interesting implications for the future. David Cameron. Rich twit from Eton, responsible for the breakup of one Union, and quite possibly more. He and Osborne are utter toast. Hopefully, so will Corbyn be as well. Idiots. Interesting times ahead. To our American comrades. Don't underestimate the depth of this. This explains Trump just as equally.
|
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 00:11 |
I agree 100% on the Trump thing. So many people bemoan populism, mock it (always a bad idea in my book) but Trump, the UK vote, what's happening all over Europe. It aint coming from nothing. I think governments all over the world are failing their people, (in my eyes thanks to the Friedman/Reagan/Thatcher neoliberalism) and the result is a global Sanders and Trump rebellion. Change some names, maybe a few ideas here and there but largely its a global response to the same issues
|
|
rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 00:31 |
I was watching the run up to the brexit with interest. Esp the tv pundits almost unanimously predicting a close win for Remain. I feel amused and sad that sitting in India I had a better feel for how the voting would go than these well paid pundits. I sold equity holdings yesterday in anticipation of a brexit. My rule of thumb was simple: People who didn't MIND remaining in EU wouldn't turn up in large enough numbers to vote while the leave vote would get mobilised. A CNBC expert was saying that armageddon doesn't happen once in every few years and this time (unlike 2008) politicians would work to resolve the crisis (like Grexit). That's dead wrong because a referendum puts the power in the hands of the people. Whether the govt then obeys the mandate is another matter but they cannot control and 'resolve' a referendum unless they rig it. Can't believe how clueless some of these people are. Do they like never step out of their air conditioned comfort (that's a very Indian expression, sorry, because it is a luxury rather than a necessity in most of India)?
Edited by rogerthat - June 24 2016 at 00:32
|
|
ALotOfBottle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 17 2016
Location: Lublin, Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1990
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 01:35 |
Fun fact: Brian Eno voted for Bremain.
|
Categories strain, crack and sometimes break, under their burden - step out of the space provided.
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 02:13 |
All very excellent points Roger.
Boy, I have railed against the EU, and I do think there are many issues with it, and while I do get the anger, frustration and desperation I have to admit didn't actually think this would happen. Guess like the pundits I made an assumption and am eating my words. It's kind of sad to see so many people turning their backs on each other and wanting to wall off. This is not just UK I mean, it's happening all over and certainly here in the states.
The knee jerk will be bad, markets tumbling and I hear the Dow will open the day already in the toilet but we shall see how things shake out. What I am curious about is, besides potential economic ramifications, what about other "exits"? I'd imagine France at the least is gunna want a referendum?
Edited by JJLehto - June 24 2016 at 02:18
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 02:34 |
Fun fact: Farage now says this was "a mistake"... what he means is it was "a blatant lie"
I wonder wow many more of their slogans and promises will turn out to be "a mistake"
|
What?
|
|
JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 02:35 |
Any hope that Scotland holds their own referendum to exit the UK and stay in the EU? While at it, can they vote to expel Donald Trump and seize his land?
EDIT: Joking btw, but wouldn't mind if they did vote to kick Trump out
Edited by JJLehto - June 24 2016 at 02:48
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 02:39 |
I think the more pressing issue is what happens to Northern Ireland, they also voted to stay in the EU and they will now share a land-border with an EU country. Closing that border will have serious implications to the Anglo-Irish agreement that brokered the fragile peace in the province.
|
What?
|
|
BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
|
Posted: June 24 2016 at 02:39 |
The Brits will very soon regret their decision; the effect on the economy will be considerable. The Pound already plummeted deeply. Even the politicians that propagated the Brexit will soon wish they hadn't because the effects this decision will have will lead to a loss in popularity. Wise after the event...
|
BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.