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ProgSword
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Topic: Many IQ albums sound the same. Posted: August 08 2014 at 03:59 |
First off, I'd like to mention that Frequency and The Road of Bones are really good albums. It's amazing what a slight change of sound can do to freshen up a band.
But that wasn't the case from Ever to Dark Matter. Each album stuck with that Genesis composition style of songs modeled off The Cinema Show and The Musical Box (you know, where the first half is some emotional storytelling, and then the second half is some esoteric rhythms and solos which usually include very melodic moog playing).
If you notice, the score spread among those albums are all very similar. One review mentioned this because "I can't speak for the first two, but the reason the last five all have a similar rating is that they're the same album." Of course, he said this during a review of Frequency, which I disagree with since the last two have taken on a more dark tone.
What do you think? I don't think it's necessarily bad that they have similar sounding albums, but it felt weird exploring IQ as a newbie because there was no consensus on what their best album is. There wasn't this album everyone could objectively point at and say "that one" (ahem Selling England By The Pound / Thick as a Brick).
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Gerinski
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 04:24 |
It's true, IQ have remained very consistent both in composition style, sound as well as in quality level for many years, making it difficult to have consensus on a "clearly best album". I have not heard Road of Bones yet but even Frequency was pretty consistent with their former style and sound, I would say that it is less dark than Subterranea (which remains probably my favourite).
Is it a good or a bad thing? well I don't know, the songs while following a trademark style and sound have been all consistently good and different enough for me, IQ have the gift of being able to construct very strong melodies. But maybe by now they are indeed getting close to draining the formula.
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rdtprog
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 04:27 |
Is the slight change you notice with Frequency and the latest come from the departure of Orford on keyboards which gives another sound to their music? Yes there is a feel of sameness in their albums, maybe this is a band that feel comfortable in their style and don't want to goes on unknown territory. I couldn't point you to a favorite album in their discography, but i can say that the 2 albums they made with the other vocalist was not as good as all of the others. They were different in a bad way : more pop and less progressive.
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Roland113
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 07:49 |
You're certainly not alone in that theory ProgSword. Ever through Dark Matter have a lot of similarities to my ears not to mention the obvious Genesis similarities. I did a review at one point comparing Dark Matter and Foxtrot.
For me, and I'd imagine many others, I loved the first one that I heard (The Seventh House), enjoyed the second one a lot (Subterranea) liked the third one (Ever) and just got tired by the fourth one (Dark Matter). I'm guessing you could change the album in parenthesies for your particular order and a lot of the sentiment would be the same.
That's the reason the ratings are all similar, random chance based on your order of discovery. There are a lot of people out there that think that Dark Matter is the best of the group and I get that, they probably got that one before they were tired of IQ.
Now with that being said, I'm really digging Road of Bones, there are still similarities, it's certainly an IQ album, but it's really good. In particular, I love the second disc.
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Hercules
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 13:22 |
They do all sound the same.
It's called brilliant.
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infandous
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 14:46 |
Yeah, this is a totally understandable thing with IQ. Frankly, with just about all the neo-prog I've heard (which, admittedly, is probably just scratching the surface, but it was enough). IQ was the fist neo-prog I heard (I guess aside from Marillion, who basically started the whole thing, or were at least the most popular of the original "neo" bands), so maybe that is a factor for why I actually like them.
However, I do find that unlike a lot of bands I really enjoy, I can't really recall much after an album is over. Usually only remembering that there was some nice acoustic intros and some "Apocalypse in 9/8" type sections in there. That said, I usually really enjoy listening to them when they are playing, so I've continued to buy their albums.
I can't even really say I have a favorite, though I would be inclined to say "The Wake", which was fairly different from what they've done since "Ever". Like Roland above, I really like Road Of Bones, which kind of surprises me as I was not even sure I wanted to buy it............which, come to think of it, is how I've approached ever IQ album since "Ever". There IS something different about this one, though it's hard to put my finger on. The "bonus" CD is quite good though.
For some reason, Dark Matter has always stuck out as my preferred album from "Ever" until now, not really sure on why. I guess it's just well structured and programmed (track wise). Of course, maybe that is just because it's laid out like Foxtrot? ;-) Anyway, basically yeah, they do all sound extremely similar, if not the same. Sometimes I don't mind that, like in this case (or just about everything Neal Morse has done, as another example).
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rushaholic
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 16:15 |
been a while since i could say this about IQ but their last album was pretty dang good. similar sound - they just got it right and that IMO has been a while.
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SteveG
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 16:20 |
Isn't this the trend of many bands, not just those in Prog. Every band finds a comfortable niche that they get attached to. Is it really Progressive then? Oh, Iain, where are you friend? And bring your usually sharp wit.
Edited by SteveG - August 08 2014 at 16:22
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stonebeard
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 16:24 |
As far as the major so-called Neo-Prog bandsgo, IQ have certainly maintained their stride for the longest period, going on about 20 years now without any extrmemly major shake-ups, though I would say Dark Matter is suspiciously more retro-sounding than others. Then again, they have fewer missteps IMO. Nothing wrong with keeping the style similar as long as the songs are good.
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ProgSword
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 20:42 |
I guess it's not totally a bad thing, but I think a shakeup every now and then is nice (which they did on the AMAZING Road of Bones).
For example, just look at Genesis. Trespass has this folky prog sound, Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot have this organ driven sound, Banks updates his keyboards in Selling England and the Genesis develops a more whimsical and fairy tale-like tone, The Lamb gets a bit darker and Hackett's guitar packs more crunch, A Trick of the Tail goes back to the Selling England sound but with Collins singing, Wind and Wuthering establishes the sound that many neo prog bands will replicate, and then that's where I stop when it comes to Genesis. :)
Whereas with IQ... if you threw together a random compilation for a new listener, would they be able to point out (with the exception of the first 3 Nichols albums for sounding so 80s) songs and say,"oh yeah, these definitely belong on an album together"? Not to mention every song being modeled after The Cinema Show, Supper's Ready, and The Musical Box.
Personally I don't think this is a bad thing because I LOVE Genesis, so much that I've always wanted more and couldn't bear that they sold out. But Dream Theater is another example of a band that does this - every album has sounded the same since Metropolis Part 2. And I don't blame them because their fans are very hesitant to change. I think it's a shame that Falling Into Infinity (damn good album) was lambasted simply for going in a more rock and pop direction. They've never done anything like that since.
Edited by ProgSword - August 08 2014 at 20:45
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ProgSword
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 20:47 |
SteveG wrote:
Isn't this the trend of many bands, not just those in Prog. Every band finds a comfortable niche that they get attached to. Is it really Progressive then? Oh, Iain, where are you friend? And bring your usually sharp wit. |
That's true, but the very best continue to invent themselves. King Crimson, Porcupine Tree, and Opeth (just to name a few).
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 21:16 |
Get one or two that are highly recommended on here and move on. I kind of feel the same way about Ozric Tentacle. I think I bought more that I really needed. The DVD is a lot of fun though.
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progbethyname
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 21:24 |
IQ have an amazing base formula for composing their music. Over the years, starting with Dark Matter they have evolved wonderfully. Their last 3 albums are very closely nit, but not to any degree where it is redundant or stale.
I you look from how they wrote and composed THE WAKE and jump to say, Frequency I feel many many differences are present, especially the heaviness factor.
IQ should be respected and commended for refining their sound in the right way.
NO LOVE LOST here.
Edited by progbethyname - August 08 2014 at 21:25
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progbethyname
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 21:28 |
Gerinski wrote:
It's true, IQ have remained very consistent both in composition style, sound as well as in quality level for many years, making it difficult to have consensus on a "clearly best album". I have not heard Road of Bones yet but even Frequency was pretty consistent with their former style and sound, I would say that it is less dark than Subterranea (which remains probably my favourite).Is it a good or a bad thing? well I don't know, the songs while following a trademark style and sound have been all consistently good and different enough for me, IQ have the gift of being able to construct very strong melodies. But maybe by now they are indeed getting close to draining the formula. |
Probably, but isn't amazing how great they sound after 30+ years.
That, in itself, says something.
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dr wu23
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 22:23 |
SteveG wrote:
Isn't this the trend of many bands, not just those in Prog. Every band finds a comfortable niche that they get attached to. Is it really Progressive then? . |
So true.....many bands fall into a comfortable 'formula' and stay there for many years.
Doesn't bother me a bit as long as the music is good.
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Triceratopsoil
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Posted: August 08 2014 at 23:17 |
I think you mean "all neoprog albums sound the same"
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richardh
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 01:42 |
Don't really agree with the OP but here's my tuppence worth on the subject
First of all there were and will still continue to be a strong link to Genesis and Yes with a lot of neo prog bands. That is not a problem.
Are all IQ albums the same?
I would say obviously not but you can perhaps group some albums together thus
Tales From The Lush Attic The Wake
both these have that early neo prog sound a bit rough and ready with a slight hint of punk.
Nomzamo Are You Sitting Comfortably?
New vocalist and an eighties sheen
IQ took a bit of a break before getting back together in tribute to Geoff Mann as I understand it. They then took that early style and reinvented it with a modern leaner approach on Ever possibly their greatest album. Now what I find really puzzling is to how anyone would think that the next release Subterranea is like Ever? Do I need to even justify or explain how different these 2 albums are?
Following that arguably IQ made perhaps their most 'generic' album The Seventh House and that is where I am in slight agreement with the OP. This reminds me of prog bands in the mid seventies taking stock of their career to date and summarising it in one musical statement (like Yes did on Going For The One). This is perhaps the only album that fits the OP criteria though imo.
After that Dark Matter is an album that perhaps is the most praised of their discography. The similarites with Genesis are very obvious (but see my first comment on this) but what it does have is a more symphonic feel and that familiarity is like a trip down memory lane for many. That's why I think its so popular.
Frequency represents a major move into the more modern style of neo. Less messing about more direct and more emotional. I like it a lot.
The jury is out on the current album for me. I think it has highs and lows and disc one does admittedly sound like a retread of other IQ albums but Disc Two is perhaps more challenging and hardly typical of anything else they have done.
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verslibre
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 03:30 |
richardh wrote:
Ever possibly their greatest album. |
It's certainly my favorite, followed by The Wake. I haven't heard TRoB yet. The other albums are good, but IMHO they haven't topped Ever. And Subterranea was like a salad that was much too large, and you kept waiting to get to the meat.
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Old_Wise_Owl
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 08:13 |
True, the sound of IQ has been pretty consistent over the years, with no
major change in musical direction. And in the normal case this would be
a turn-off for me, but not for IQ, which I really love.
So why
is that? The most important reasons is good songs, IQ has never
compromised on the quality of the song-writing, which is always top
notch. Combine that, with tasteful arrangement, and emotional
performance,(and no slumping there either), and you have a package that
manages to sound fresh every time, despite not offering any major
changes in style. On top of all this, they are a terrific live band.
Every
album since Ever is a killer, and TROB is no exception. I sometimes
like to think that IQ does what Genesis should have been doing, hadn't
they strayed away from their Symphonic Prog roots. In fact, no band carries the old Genesis legacy better than IQ.
It's
understandable from a historical point of view that here at PA they
have been filed under Neo-Prog, that's where their roots are. But based
on what I said in the previous paragraph, I would argue, that today,
2014, IQ are the true leaders of Symphonic Prog. No-one does Symphonic
Prog better today than IQ!
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progbethyname
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Posted: August 20 2014 at 11:44 |
richardh wrote:
Don't really agree with the OP but here's my tuppence worth on the subject First of all there were and will still continue to be a strong link to Genesis and Yes with a lot of neo prog bands. That is not a problem. Are all IQ albums the same? I would say obviously not but you can perhaps group some albums together thus Tales From The Lush Attic The Wake both these have that early neo prog sound a bit rough and ready with a slight hint of punk. Nomzamo Are You Sitting Comfortably? New vocalist and an eighties sheen IQ took a bit of a break before getting back together in tribute to Geoff Mann as I understand it. They then took that early style and reinvented it with a modern leaner approach on Ever possibly their greatest album. Now what I find really puzzling is to how anyone would think that the next release Subterranea is like Ever? Do I need to even justify or explain how different these 2 albums are? Following that arguably IQ made perhaps their most 'generic' album The Seventh House and that is where I am in slight agreement with the OP. This reminds me of prog bands in the mid seventies taking stock of their career to date and summarising it in one musical statement (like Yes did on Going For The One). This is perhaps the only album that fits the OP criteria though imo. After that Dark Matter is an album that perhaps is the most praised of their discography. The similarites with Genesis are very obvious (but see my first comment on this) but what it does have is a more symphonic feel and that familiarity is like a trip down memory lane for many. That's why I think its so popular. Frequency represents a major move into the more modern style of neo. Less messing about more direct and more emotional. I like it a lot. The jury is out on the current album for me. I think it has highs and lows and disc one does admittedly sound like a retread of other IQ albums but Disc Two is perhaps more challenging and hardly typical of anything else they have done. |
You need not to justify the differences between EVER and SUBTERANEA with me, my friend.
Well said once again
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