A Personal Definition of Prog

There seems to be two rivalling popular definitions of progressive rock I've encountered.

1. The first refers to a general willingness to think outside the box musically, or perhaps the specific culture of the 1960s/1970s prog-rock scene and newer heirs to that tradition, making "prog" an ethos more than a genre.
2. The second defines progressive rock as about constructing lengthy complex compositions using techniques and structures derived from classical music in the context of rock instrumentation.

I wager the site admins subscribe to the first, since music groups without much in the way of classical influence have found their way to its database. The second one would exclude most of the "Krautrock" groups except the more overtly symphonic, a lot of jazz fusion, more or less all post-rock, all but a handful Pink Floyd songs scattered across the band's entire discography et cetera.

Toaster Mantis wrote: There seems to be two rivalling popular definitions of progressive rock I've encountered. The first refers to a general willingness to think outside the box musically, or perhaps the specific culture of the 1960s/1970s prog-rock scene and newer heirs to that tradition, making "prog" an ethos more than a genre. The second defines progressive rock as about constructing lengthy complex compositions using techniques and structures derived from classical music in the context of rock instrumentation. I wager the site admins subscribe to the first, since music groups without much in the way of classical influence have found their way to its database. The second one would exclude most of the "Krautrock" groups except the more overtly symphonic, a lot of jazz fusion, more or less all post-rock, all but a handful Pink Floyd songs scattered across the band's entire discography et cetera.

HolyMoly wrote: Prog is what I get when I mate a Panda with a Frog.

I guess many Prog fans are shy with women and green with envy....

Sorry Tony, but I just realised that your post count registers as a phone number on my screen

:-P

My very simple definition:

Progressive rock = art rock (artistic rock)

Progression means from plain craft to form of art.

So every artistic music could be called progressive music (prog rock, classical music, modern jazz, prog folk, progressive electronica ...)

Some further explanation:

Art = creative expression with aesthetic value ...

Art: something that is created with imagination and skill and that is beautiful or that expresses important ideas or feelings. (Merriam Webster Dictionary)

"That which is static and repetitive is boring. That which is dynamic and random is confusing. In between lies art."
John A. Locke (1632-1704), English philosopher.

Rock: popular music usually played on electronically amplified instruments and characterized by a persistent heavily accented beat, repetition of simple phrases [riffs], and often country, folk, and blues elements.
(Merriam Webster Dictionary)

Tony R wrote: Guldbamsen wrote: Sorry Tony, but I just realised that your post count registers as a phone number on my screen It is my phone number.

Are you sure?  I just called it and got a guy named "Stavros".  He's not your receptionist, is he?

It's very true what you say. This solely depends on the existence of people like us. People who experienced Progressive Rock in the 70's. Rules were firm like laws to follow by the musicians in that time. People often wonder how and why that would be? The most pathetic sounding requests were often rules laid down for musicians...by band leaders. Robert Fripp and Tony Banks for example, ...can you vision either one of these guys allowing commercial writing styles to exist on King Crimson and Genesis albums in the early 70's? If one particular musician in Genesis or K.C. decided to inject a "Hard Rock" riff or sound to the music.....do you do not think that ideas crossing into other styles would have been immediately rejected by these controlling band leaders? Of course they would! People seeeem to take that offensively today. Was it harsh? Did some musicians feel offended by that act? Did Greg Lake feel Tarkus was over the top? The answer is yes. He was more of a rocker than Emerson and Palmer and certain rules laid down by the main composer were harsh, but for good reason. It's not possible for a majority of people to buy into that today because they feel it is unjust to other styles of music. In the days of early Progressive Rock, the focus was on what precisely to dismiss as much as what specifically to include. Some musicians didn't find the subject illuminating and acted as if their allowance had been taken away. Nick Magnus had issues with The Enid and part of that pressure having to do with joining forces with a band that rehearsed 12 to sometimes 15 hrs. a day. 

You know, definitions of progressive rock which try to capture the sense of newness and innovation seem to lose clarity.

The genre that was born in the late 60's - early 70's, which joined jazz freedom to classical composition and precision and rock energy, which benefitted from the advent of the synthesizer and interesting new studio techniques, which explored new spiritual and philosophical horizons of lyrical subject matter -

That's what we call progressive rock.

And you know what? In the big picture, it's still more interesting and innovative than a lot of what we call cutting-edge today.

Toaster Mantis wrote: There seems to be two rivalling popular definitions of progressive rock I've encountered. The first refers to a general willingness to think outside the box musically, or perhaps the specific culture of the 1960s/1970s prog-rock scene and newer heirs to that tradition, making "prog" an ethos more than a genre. The second defines progressive rock as about constructing lengthy complex compositions using techniques and structures derived from classical music in the context of rock instrumentation. I wager the site admins subscribe to the first, since music groups without much in the way of classical influence have found their way to its database. The second one would exclude most of the "Krautrock" groups except the more overtly symphonic, a lot of jazz fusion, more or less all post-rock, all but a handful Pink Floyd songs scattered across the band's entire discography et cetera.

I have to reluctantly agree with this demarcation. I say reluctantly because the ramifications of option 2 would be completely unpalatable to most of the PA members I've been arguing with to this effect for several years. Even current  site admin Guldbamsen has ventured that Krautrock ain't really Prog.


Edited by ExittheLemming - May 23 2014 at 12:19