Great ELP Debate

Ivan,

 

I never said they did it for the hospital I just said the money went for the hospital. The owner of the Roxy, being a Los Angeles resident, is the one who set up the thing.  Genesis was in the middle of a world tour.  But even if they did not set it up they agreed to play and even you Ivan would have been in attendence if you could have.

I know about companies and their "generosity". Even still  I think this was a pretty cool thing Genesis did for their fans especially their older fans.  It wasn't a publicity stunt because it wasn't talked about in the media afterwards.

I know you are cyinical and it is OK but sometimes good things are done even if not quite as generous or pure as it was intended.  I am sure what ever child got the benefit of that $4000 will attest to that.

I know about it because I was there.  If I wasn't and unless someone I knew was  there I never would have heard of it.  Unlike in 1977 when Peter Gabriel played his first tour shows there at the Roxy it was all over the radio including a live  radio broadcast. (was lucky to see one of those too) This was really understated. That is what my point was.  Not a lot of chest thumping going on.

Edited by Garion81

ELP are fantastic...but if you don't like them, you don't like them!! I can't stand Caravan or Tool, so there you go!

Well if that was their design they failed because everyone of the 440 people who bought tickets that day were die hard old band fans.

Then they tried to recover some old fans.

I'm not trying to be cynical, but if you know about that night, many other people knows about it, as you well said "It was for the old fans and they did it for free. Children hospital was secondary".

They played for free not for the hospital, they played for free for their fans, because 2 or 3 thousand bucks mened absolutely nothing for them in that moment, that's the way they used to tell old fans you see, we're not the bad guys you believe, we will give you what you want and for free.

Sorry if I'm skeptical, but you should also remember that the band in a "great gesture" with Peter Gabriel in 1982, played to help him because he had broke promoting African music with WOMAD.

Everything seems nice, but the band refused to use the name Genesis, because they were afraid that Peter Gabriel will try to go back with the band, that concert was called "Six of the Best", and they didn't invited Steve Hackett, who joined them almost at the end of the concert because he was there.

Phil Collins never did anything without studying all the posibilities, so forgive me but I don't believe the show was for free, I'm sure they gained much more with it than what they gave to the Children Hospital.

Iván

ivan_2068 wrote: For God's sake, I'm becoming a very bitter guy. Iván

Welcome to reality.

ivan_2068 wrote: Major band on tour int USA plays a city that when they were younger was their only date west of Chicago.  Even still it was only 4 nights at a 400 seat club. 8 years later they return as a major player.  They decide to play this venue again in addition to the shows already scheduled at a larger venue.  They donate all proceeds from this show at the 400 seat club to the local children’s hospital. The only announcement was a radio announcement 12 hours before tickets went on sale. No pre announcement announcement or any nonsense like that, just the one.  The band was in the booth selling the tickets and autographed each one. The cost of the ticket was $10.  Now I ask you is this a thing their producers said to do or was it something the band wanted to for their fans and help a good cause?  (Certainly $4000 even in 1980 standards was not a lot of money but I don't think that was the point.)  Granted this may have been the exception not the rule but it does happen.   Maybe I'm too cynicall or worked as a lawyer too much time, but I have some questions: 1.- Did they repeated this gesture when they had an auditorium of 10, 20 or 40 thousand souls? No of course not. 2.- Didn't they had a chance to approach direct to a new fan base? Not sure what you mean Ivan. 3.- Did they deduced this US$ 4,000 from tax?  I don't work for them so I don't know.  They didn't really earn that $4000 That would have been the draw from the tickets which was donated by the Club owner.  I am sure The Band could donate the amount of the fee they charged for any concert. 4.- Did the newspapers wrote something about this gesture the next day? Absolutely nothing was written about this show anywhere. Although the dates they were already set to play were. Maybe they are the exception and they are very nice people as Bob Geldof. Iván   The band was Genesis and it was the 1980 Duke tour. They played the world famous Roxy in Hollywood on Sunset. They played their full set and added The Musical Box and played The Knife as thier encore.

Sorry Arcer, but The Clash was just another pop outfit produced by some lame idiots from record land. They lasted a few years and dissapeared, nobody even talks about them anymore. Reminds me a lot of The Menudos, same destiny (and same tasteless configuration). There is NO WAY you can associate culture and punk, impossible unless its conected to Trailer Park Culture (lack of - that is). Take it as it is; Punk = Junk, and its pretty silly to praise punk at a Progressive Rock forum. But ok have it your way...lets discuss how great the punk musicians were, how much time and effort they put into the trash they produced. Lets discuss how great Nirvana was and how refined their harmonic structure was and lest no forget to dissect the fabulous poetry they delivered the world.

I totally agree with the one that put punk into the poseur category, thats was what punk was about; bad attitude, screaming and yelling anti social garbage at the ones that payed their bills. So when they finally came to cash, most of them became respectable business men ( if they can, most of them failed the anger management crisis). Punk was just a fart that lasted 2-3 years just as the Lambada did, but funy enough a few nostalgic fans still hang on. Just dont forget that there is no musical value what so ever in these popular movements.

To be honest, its sad to know that you have this huge collection of prog rock and even count in Tangerine Dream albums and that all this great music havent touched you at all.

charity shmarity, I've always preferred my rock stars to be whacked out on ludes whilst simultaneously snorting lines from the bare bellies of nubile groupies while necking a fifth of jack

Yeah right on dude, and later taxpayers will gladly contribute to expensive rehab programs for these unfortunate fellows that had a chance and blew it ! With "ludes", and sips of "jack", snorting "powder" from the naked bellies of nublie groupies was the only thing they could do to these poor young ladies.

 

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Lunar   

Please guys, I'm not against charity, but as I said before I don't believe in false Gods, with a few honorable exceptions Rock artists do Charity with other purpose, they don't give a damn who is starving or anything, their producers tell them it's a good way to show a good image and also to avoid some taxes.

Of course IF the money they collect goes entirely to the ones who need it is always good, but don't believe most of the Rock Stars do it because they are so good or identified with a cause, they do it for simple and plain bussines or for free publicity.

Iván

 

ivan_2068 wrote: Richardh wrote: I don't expect musicians to be great people.They only ever turn up to things like Live Aid because it improves their image and makes people think they are 'good' people.If only they could get their heads out of their own arses then maybe I would believe it. Agree 100% with everything you say here Richardh. Sad but truth. Iván

If you were starving, would you refuse a loaf of bread came it came via Live Aid?

Of course the associated musicians were in it for publicity. Of course, the global exposure boosted sales of their back catalogues. Would things have been better if they had just ignored the famine?

Ivan wrote ;

Switzerland doesn't make you avoid taxes, you pay for every concert in the country you make the concert and you pay a percentage of what you receive from the label that represents you in the country where that label is from, because the tax is charged by the country where the invcome is produced.

And Switzerland is not tax free as most people believe, taxes are cheaper than in many countries but not free.

but in the bad old high tax days of the mid-70s many bands chose to exile themselves to lower tax regimes in order to avoid the punitive rates in Britain. The Stones went to France, as did Floyd, seems ELP just chose to go to Switzerland. Tax dodge.

Richardh wrote:

Quote: I don't expect musicians to be great people.They only ever turn up to things like Live Aid because it improves their image and makes people think they are 'good' people.If only they could get their heads out of their own arses then maybe I would believe it.

Agree 100% with everything you say here Richardh.

Sad but truth.

Iván

 

There's a lot in that, but I truly think that both Bob Geldof and Midge Ure were sincere when they put it all together - and that their positive actions have had results - which is what counts, at the end of the day.

The end justifies the means.

Edited by Certif1ed